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Old 02-14-2009, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648

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At this time China, our lender of last resort, doesn't have the money available to finance our new spending package. In order for them to buy the securities we will print to pay for this "stimulus Bill" they have to run an equally large trade surplus with the US. How does that help the US economy?


"Worries about China's finances are once again resurfacing in America. Commentators from Newsweek's Fareed Zakaria to British economic historian Niall Ferguson argue that Washington needs China to buy U.S. Treasury bonds to fund U.S. fiscal spending. And with Beijing embarking on a public spending plan of its own, the argument goes, China can't afford to play the role of America's lender of last resort anymore.
This fearmongering grossly misrepresents the U.S.-China economic relationship. For starters, China's two trillion dollars in reserves is already invested, so it cannot be used to fund future U.S. deficits. China can only invest future reserve accumulation in U.S. debt, and the only way it can accumulate new reserves is by running a trade surplus."

China Will Keep Buying U.S. Government Debt - WSJ.com


Does anyone still believe the spending package is anything but a huge payoff to Obama supporters?
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:32 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,274,860 times
Reputation: 1893
OMG: More PROOF that Obama is in league with the Communists.

Don't you people ever get tired of this crap? Every leading economist in the nation says that we need a stimulus bill.
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
OMG: More PROOF that Obama is in league with the Communists.

Don't you people ever get tired of this crap? Every leading economist in the nation says that we need a stimulus bill.

How many of them would endorse this bill?
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:57 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,274,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
How many of them would endorse this bill?
Quite a few. Most of the criticism I've heard is that Obama is not going far enough. Seriously.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Location: toronto, Canada
773 posts, read 1,214,893 times
Reputation: 283
Many economists are against the Keynesian socialist stimulus bill, it didn't work in the thirties and it won't work now.
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...-the-stimulus/
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...stimulus-bill/

Momonkey, the China daily, printed an article which hints that China won't be buying any treasury bills to support pork unless congress tones down the socialist protectionist 'buy american' rhetoric.
Experts: Stimulus bill could backfire on US (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2009-02/12/content_7469334.htm - broken link)
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:42 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,844,675 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmastersteve View Post
Many economists are against the Keynesian socialist stimulus bill, it didn't work in the thirties and it won't work now.
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...-the-stimulus/
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/...stimulus-bill/

Momonkey, the China daily, printed an article which hints that China won't be buying any treasury bills to support pork unless congress tones down the socialist protectionist 'buy american' rhetoric.
Experts: Stimulus bill could backfire on US (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2009-02/12/content_7469334.htm - broken link)
can you point to anything that isn't partisan like the cato inst. or mises or the Heritage founadation? The reason I ask is because most mainstream economist overmhelmingly think we need it. Could you also please explain how these right wing economist have any credibility, especially against the Keynesians since the keynesians have been so much more accurate?
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:45 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,844,675 times
Reputation: 1033
The cato Inst praises Bush economics?

Cato scholars had praised Bush administration initiatives. During the 2008 U.S. presidential election, Cato scholars criticized both major-party candidates, John McCain[11][12] and Barack Obama.[13][14]

Cato Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:37 AM
 
Location: toronto, Canada
773 posts, read 1,214,893 times
Reputation: 283
Unlike Cato, I won't defend Bush economics which got us into the current mess, more than any other factor, but it is difficult to find any economist who doesn't fall into a school simply because it unfortunately is treated as a mathematical equation rather than as a subjective study of human behaviour.

Myself I can only support an opinion which is neither left or right, but anti-authoritarian. The anarcho-libertarian in me will always side with less government, more choice. C'est laissez vie is my motto in most cases.

The only person off the top of my head I can think of who is non-partisan in politics but is opposed to the stimulus is Gerald Celente.

Personally, my personal take is that The famed 1930’s economist Lord Keynes claimed governments could correct recessions by massive deficit spending which would be repaid when boom times returned. His theories have become a state religion for liberals on the left of the Democratic Party.


But massive deficit spending is like treating a poison victim with more big doses of poison. This kind of economic voodoo reminds me of medieval medicine: try every kind of dangerous procedure until you either kill the patient or he somehow survives the doctors.

The current crisis was caused by runaway borrowing by the Bush administration, individuals, hedge funds, and the unregulated `shadow’ financial industry in New York and London. Obama’s remedy: borrow and spend trillions more.
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:51 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,844,675 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmastersteve View Post
Unlike Cato, I won't defend Bush economics which got us into the current mess, more than any other factor, but it is difficult to find any economist who doesn't fall into a school simply because it unfortunately is treated as a mathematical equation rather than as a subjective study of human behaviour.

Myself I can only support an opinion which is neither left or right, but anti-authoritarian. The anarcho-libertarian in me will always side with less government, more choice. C'est laissez vie is my motto in most cases.

The only person off the top of my head I can think of who is non-partisan in politics but is opposed to the stimulus is Gerald Celente.

Personally, my personal take is that The famed 1930’s economist Lord Keynes claimed governments could correct recessions by massive deficit spending which would be repaid when boom times returned. His theories have become a state religion for liberals on the left of the Democratic Party.


But massive deficit spending is like treating a poison victim with more big doses of poison. This kind of economic voodoo reminds me of medieval medicine: try every kind of dangerous procedure until you either kill the patient or he somehow survives the doctors.

The current crisis was caused by runaway borrowing by the Bush administration, individuals, hedge funds, and the unregulated `shadow’ financial industry in New York and London. Obama’s remedy: borrow and spend trillions more.
So who reflects your view? In all honesty its not just Bushs fault that we are in this mess. Its cultist belief made very popular by Reagan about small government and lower taxes. It actually is a noble idea, but it's unrealistic. Even Reagan abandoned the belief and move Keynesian. I can provide links if you need( I'm not doing it now because its late and I'm being lazy) in all honesty. I have found no real life proof that tax-cuts have proven effective ever.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:02 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Quite a few. Most of the criticism I've heard is that Obama is not going far enough. Seriously.
Maybe you could post few that have commented on the spending bill that became law.
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