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Old 02-17-2009, 07:50 AM
 
12,627 posts, read 18,167,023 times
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If Bill Clinton would have not called off the capture/hits on Osama this would not be happening !




Pakistan Makes a Taliban Truce, Creating a Haven :

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The government announced Monday that it would accept a system of Islamic law in the Swat valley and agreed to a truce, effectively conceding the area as a Taliban sanctuary and suspending a faltering effort by the army to crush the insurgents.

The concessions to the militants, who now control about 70 percent of the region just 100 miles from the capital, were criticized by Pakistani analysts as a capitulation by a government desperate to stop Taliban abuses and a military embarrassed at losing ground after more than a year of intermittent fighting.

About 3,000 Taliban militants have kept 12,000 government troops at bay and terrorized the local population with floggings and the burning of schools.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/wo..._r=1&th&emc=th





Here is another story about the Taliban that is pretty scary. thought it should be included in this thread instead of it's own.
Sounds to me like they will try to recruit people in the US to do dirty deeds for them. That is a very scary thought!

From Pakistan, Taliban Threats Reach New York

Last June, Bakht Bilind Khan, who was living in the Bronx and working at a fast-food restaurant, returned to his village in the volatile Swat Valley of northern Pakistan to visit his wife and seven children for the first time in three years.

But at a dinner celebration with his family, his homecoming suddenly turned dark: several heavily armed Taliban fighters wearing masks appeared at the door of their house, accused Mr. Khan of being an American spy and kidnapped him.
During two weeks of captivity in a nearby mountain range, Mr. Khan says, he was interrogated repeatedly about his wealth, property and “mission” in the United States.
He was released in exchange for an $8,000 ransom. His family, threatened with death if they did not leave the region, is now hiding elsewhere in Pakistan.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/ny...html?th&emc=th




Last edited by Miborn; 02-17-2009 at 07:58 AM..
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
5,121 posts, read 6,204,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
If Bill Clinton would have not called off the capture/hits on Osama this would not be happening !

Very true, but if Adam just hadnt taken a bite out of that damned apple.......

While all of what is posted here shows we have a growing problem, and we seem to be losing ground in the Middle east again, I guess the real question becomes what should we be doing about it now? Fretting over lost opportunities doesnt cut it.

Sadly, I'm guessing we'll send our secretary of state to talk about it for the next four years...which will be followed on by another repub admin that will start shooting again..and on and on it goes. We have become to politically correct, to seek a viable, real, solution to any of the problems that confront us. Only compromises that placate the squeakiest wheels for a while, so the problem is forgotten about as the next crisis(which was the last crisis before the most recent one) rears it head again.

I need a vacation from this planet.......
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,831 posts, read 2,115,996 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
If Bill Clinton would have not called off the capture/hits on Osama this would not be happening !




Pakistan Makes a Taliban Truce, Creating a Haven :

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The government announced Monday that it would accept a system of Islamic law in the Swat valley and agreed to a truce, effectively conceding the area as a Taliban sanctuary and suspending a faltering effort by the army to crush the insurgents.

The concessions to the militants, who now control about 70 percent of the region just 100 miles from the capital, were criticized by Pakistani analysts as a capitulation by a government desperate to stop Taliban abuses and a military embarrassed at losing ground after more than a year of intermittent fighting.

About 3,000 Taliban militants have kept 12,000 government troops at bay and terrorized the local population with floggings and the burning of schools.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/wo..._r=1&th&emc=th





Here is another story about the Taliban that is pretty scary. thought it should be included in this thread instead of it's own.
Sounds to me like they will try to recruit people in the US to do dirty deeds for them. That is a very scary thought!

From Pakistan, Taliban Threats Reach New York

Last June, Bakht Bilind Khan, who was living in the Bronx and working at a fast-food restaurant, returned to his village in the volatile Swat Valley of northern Pakistan to visit his wife and seven children for the first time in three years.

But at a dinner celebration with his family, his homecoming suddenly turned dark: several heavily armed Taliban fighters wearing masks appeared at the door of their house, accused Mr. Khan of being an American spy and kidnapped him.
During two weeks of captivity in a nearby mountain range, Mr. Khan says, he was interrogated repeatedly about his wealth, property and “mission” in the United States.
He was released in exchange for an $8,000 ransom. His family, threatened with death if they did not leave the region, is now hiding elsewhere in Pakistan.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/ny...html?th&emc=th



What is your evidence that

Quote:
If Bill Clinton would have not called off the capture/hits on Osama this would not be happening !
That kind of contradicts history, doesn't it? The rules were certainly different prior to 911. Clinton had him under surveillance throughout his Administration. Bin Laden was on the FBI Most Wanted List at least as far back as 1992. Clinton had a full scale military satellite listening to his cell phone calls and tracking him until a big fuss was made about what a "waste" it was. Osama Bin Laden still gave interviews to the major network news back then. I doubt if a "hit" was considered an option. I remember during the 911 Commission hearings one of the intelligence people from his Administration telling about how they had tried to set up a counterterrorism training camp (in Israel) and the FBI showed up and told them they could all go to prison for "plotting the assassination of a foreign official" (meaning the Taliban) which was illegal at the time. By what was published in the press he did what he could within the law up until Bush took office. It doesn't look like Bush paid much attention until 911 though. I suppose one can argue that Clinton should have done an illegal/covert operation like Iran/Contra, but have we really sunk to such depths that we disparage our leaders for failing to break the law?

Terrorism linked to $12bn extra for defence | World news | The Guardian

All signs pointed to bin Laden

Business | Across The Nation | Seattle Times Newspaper

TERROR CHIEF: 10G PER HEAD BOUNTY MAY HAVE SPURRED TWIN BOMBINGS, EXPERTS SAY (http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1998/08/27/1998-08-27_terror_chief__10g_per_head__.html - broken link)

Open Season On Americans, Osama Bin Laden Vows A Holy War . . . - CBS News

TERRORISTS PLOT DOOM CIA warns of attacks planned for New Year's Eve fetes (http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1999/12/20/1999-12-20_terrorists_plot_doom_cia_war.html - broken link)

BOMBINGS IN EAST AFRICA: THE SUSPECT; Wealthy Force Behind Murky Militant Group - New York Times

www.washingtonpost.com: E. Africa Bombings Report

Silence of the Lambs - Destination Hollywood Tribute
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:38 PM
 
12,627 posts, read 18,167,023 times
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Fatchance2005

Oh but it would have made a difference as the Taliban was not as large or as strong as today. They were in the beginning stages of terrorism! With Osama out of the picture and his financial backing they would not have grown to what they are today!
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:04 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,922,814 times
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GBasically it shows that the pakistan leaders no long have faith that america can help them.Lack of confisdence shall we say.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:00 AM
 
Location: toronto, Canada
772 posts, read 1,091,773 times
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The late Benazir Bhutto if you remember let it slip about the death of Osama Bin Laden.
Not something Bush and Chaney wanted the world to know but is a well known story circulating around Pakistan.


YouTube - Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered
Listen between 1:45 and @:30 in the video, complete with subtitles, not that they're required.
She spoke the King's English while studying at Harvard University.

In her words 'Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh the man who murdered Osam Bin Laden'.

Considering Taliban represents 45% of the largest ethnic group of Pashtuns in Afghanistan.
Pakistan is right that any kind of realistic peace negotiations will have to include the Taliban.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
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Perhaps if Bush actually understood how to use a map we would have taken care of the Taliban right the first time.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,456 posts, read 12,725,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
If Bill Clinton would have not called off the capture/hits on Osama this would not be happening !

Boo Hoo Hoo, it's all Clinton's fault. I suppose you reckon that Clinton is also able to predict the future and failed to act?
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,831 posts, read 2,115,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
Fatchance2005

Oh but it would have made a difference as the Taliban was not as large or as strong as today. They were in the beginning stages of terrorism! With Osama out of the picture and his financial backing they would not have grown to what they are today!

Oh now I understand. What you're saying is "If wishes were fishes we could fry us a few".
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:13 AM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,679,194 times
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HA HA, well feel free to blame everything on Clinton if you like as he does bear some responsibility but... At least have some decency to be outraged over this as well, I mean if something is wrong it is wrong, no matter who does it.

Taleban tax: allied supply convoys pay their enemies for safe passage

Quote:
The West is indirectly funding the insurgency in Afghanistan thanks to a system of payoffs to Taleban commanders who charge protection money to allow convoys of military supplies to reach Nato bases in the south of the country.
Taleban tax: allied supply convoys pay their enemies for safe passage - Times Online

Additionally, the Bush administration has been considering talks with the Taliban and both the US supported/installed government in Afghanistan has been actively talking with elements of the Taliban for some time.

The U.S. is actively considering talks with elements of the Taliban, the armed Islamist group that once ruled Afghanistan and sheltered al Qaeda, in a major policy shift that would have been unthinkable a few months ago

Quote:
The idea is supported by Gen. David Petraeus, who will assume responsibility this week for U.S. policy in Afghanistan and Pakistan
U.S. Mulls Talks With Taliban in Bid to Quell Afghan Unrest - WSJ.com

Guess what, there is no created "haven", it has always existed, it still exist, and it will likely continue to exist as the haven spans several countries in some of the most mountainous regions on planet earth. This "haven" is what kept folks like the Persians, the Ottomans, the Brits, and even the Russian's from maintaining control over the greater region.
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