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I love debating but I hate when someone says you are wrong but provide noting to refute your facts.
I honestly believe that if FDR's New Deal was as bad as Conservatives/History Changers like Classic claim; FDR would not have went down as the Greatest President of All Time.
Because he would've gotten kicked out of office. FDR wouldn't have even seen WWII.
Why were the American People so quick to kick Hoover out of office but keep FDR for 8 years! BEFORE WW2 even started!
Again you cannot change history. The New Deal worked! The proof is obvious....
He is still ranked towards the top, despite all the revisionist hacks.
Lincoln also is thought of highly. Most still believe the civil war was over slavery. As always, it depends on who gets to write the history. Adolf Hitler would be known as the greatest man who ever lived if he had won the war.
Those who get out of their current textbooks approved by our regime can easily see that the civil war was over taxes and nothing more. They could also appreciate how Lincoln effectively ended any pretense of the states being "united" or having rights. I actually think Lincoln would feel right at home with any tyrant. He simply had millions of Americans killed to protect northern shipping and transportation interests over the southern states rights to do business. It wasn't until southern states built their own shipping ports and stopped transporting goods up north before going abroad that any thought of war ever entered his mind. When the south refused to pay the "sin" taxes against funding the north he simply decided to exterminate them.
He only led a coup to replace the agreement among states into a federal tyranny. What an accomplishment. I guess that is why so many here are so fond of Stalin as well. FDR was a huge fan of Stalin. His elitist upbringing allowed him to love the idea of socialism which was so in vogue before history proved how stupid it really is. He and Uncle Joe did all they could to transform this nation as quickly as possible before the people came to their senses. Trouble is, they never did, and probably never will.
It is clear that the defenders of the likes of tyrants such as FDR will only realize their folly when we stand in lines for bread or to be shot for not worshipping the state properly. There will always be data to support one idea or another, that is the nature of statistics. I just hope that the new FDR in office doesn't finish the job for the next generation. If he does, then every American that died in every war will have died only to have his country, and the world, lose the war for human freedom.
Yes, FDR was the greatest president in our history if you believe that the highest level of human society is communism. If you believe that there should be at least one place on earth where humans are free, he is nothing more than another in a long line of dictators and tyrants.
As for the current socialist idiot fashioning himself as the new Lincoln, well I pray he has the same fate.
Care to refute the information with facts Classic?
Or can you only resort to name calling because this debate is too high for your intellect
Everyone is posting baseless articles by people who are obvious Conservatives/Republicans
History has shown that the New deal was immensely successful.
Posting articles by people with agendas mean nothing. I can find articles on the internet that Elvis is still alive
No one can refute that FDR went down as the Greatest President of all time....yes that was possible in part b/c of his leading the World to victory in WWII. But even before then FDR was extremely popular and again that is because the "New Deal" WAS working....
I agree with the substance of your thinking, except for the detail about who was the greatest. FDR is right there of course. But then, what about Lincoln and Washington? To me, and to most historians it is Lincoln.
In no way do I diminish FDR, it is just that Washington and Lincoln were so excellent, that they remain in the discussion. We as a nation are so fortunate to have had these three at the time they served.
As a footnote, Lincoln would have despised what the Republicans have become today.
It is time to put an end to these crazy and baseless myths that are being repeated constantly. It is time for the facts.
Over the past month people have seemed to suck up Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity's talking points and actually believe them as if they are TRUTH
Part 1 of Debunking Conservative MYTHS
1) FDR's "New Deal" A. Did not work or B. Deepened the Great Depression
Excuse me? Are you serious? Why don't Republicans just say ELVIS is still alive if it is so easy to just change history....
The FACT is FDR's "NEW DEAL" (while not perfect) was necessary and a very historic and successful program. How was the NEW DEAL not successful (there are 5-6 New Deal programs that are still in existant TODAY, Ever heard of SOCIAL SECURITY that has kept 35% of Americans out of poverty? What about the FDIC that stopped the bleeding of banks runs and insures your deposit in banks? What about the SEC, the program that started the regulation of the Stock Market from the greeds who got us into the Great depression *Stock Market Crash of 1929*....)
If the New deal was such a failure....why are there so many programs from the New Deal we STILL use today?
In FDR's first term U.S.'s GNP/GDP grew 34% and 58% by 1940
Unemployment (which was at an astronomical rate when FDR took office 25%) he cut that in half in his first term with his infrastructure programs (The CCC and the Works Progress Administration (almost every city is America today, has a park, bridge, school, or road built from WPA) all before WWII. FDR created nearly 10 million jobs (before WWII)
FDR set this country forward and it is exactly what Obama is looking to do!
Even despite these facts I can easily debunk conservatives false myths by asking a few questions....
If it is true that the New Deal (Spending Stimulus) did not work as you guys claim, WHY THE HELL WAS FDR SO DAMN POPULAR in the 1930s??!!
If the New DEAL was not working (and if the Depression was getting worse) wouldn't they have kicked FDR out of office? Instead of him being ELECTED TO 4 TERMS!
Why do you think FDR won his second term by the biggest landslide in history in 1936? Because the NEW DEAL WAS WORKING!
FDR has since been hailed as one of the greatest presidents in history, and I can assure you that is NOT b/c the NEW DEAL FAILED....
FDR's opponents (Republicans) before his administration and during the New Deal were saying FDR would spend TOO MUCH; calling him a socialist/marxist who would take this country towards the Soviet Union....
Sounds alot like what they are saying about Obama today huh?
But what was the historical outcome, Herbert Hoover, an uncharismatic out of touch business man was ousted out of office and largely blamed by the America people for the Great Depression (Blaiming Hoover's "do nothing" approach,deregulation, and the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act)....Sounds a lot like George W. Bush doesn't it?
While the new guy in town Franklin D. Roosevelt (hailed as the candidate of "change" during the 1932 campaign but criticized by Republicans as a left wing socialist radical that would bring down America)
Hmmm sounds alot like someone in office today, doesn't it?
Well what was the OUTCOME?
FDR is looked at as the leader who led America out of the biggest Economic Crisis of all-time....
My point is Conservatives lie all you want but history is not on your side....
To be continued....
"Ever heard of SOCIAL SECURITY that has kept 35% of Americans out of poverty?"
Great program! I'll pay into it for all my working life while dead beats with "back problems" collect a check every month. Guess what will happen if and when I reach retirement age?
Give up?
Nothing! I'll get nothing just like everyone else in my generation who will pay into socialized insecurity.
FDIC and SEC were both good ideas. They don't cost me very much money at all and I'm not going to pay into them all my working life only to get shafted at the end. Are you able to see the difference? Have you seen any posts on this forum calling for an end to the FDIC or SEC? Fight straw men on your own time.
"In FDR's first term U.S.'s GNP/GDP grew 34% and 58% by 1940"
34%, that's all? It dropped 50% from its peak in 1929 by the time FDR took office in 1933 and had already bottomed out of its own accord. Since the the FDIC and SEC prevented a recurance of bank runs and market crashes of the sort that had taken place earlier, what else would you expect to happen?
Were people in the 1930s suffering due to a lack of GDP? Did people stand in long lines for a chance to get GDP? Did people go to other states to find GDP? No, the problem was they didn't have jobs. Unemployment was the issue. That is what caused people to suffer. That is what caused the stagnation that extended the depression. The New deal failed because it never solved the problem of unemployment.
Prior to the reinstatement of the military draft in 1940, Roosevelt's unemployment never dipped below 14.3% and averaged 18.3% throughout the New Deal years. In fact, the unemployment rate in 1938 was still 19%. I'm not sure how you call that a success on any level.
As far as GDP goes....
Annual Real GDP Growth, by decade (%): 1930s: 0.95
1940s: 5.57
1950s: 4.09
1960s: 4.43
1970s: 3.23
1980s: 3.04
1990s: 3.10
2000s: 2.02 (through ‘07)
In August of 1936, FDR called for a private meeting with Hoover to discuss what Hoover later described as "subversive activities in the United States, particularly Fascism and Communism" and that FDR wanted Hoover to discreetly provide him with a "broad picture" of both movements.
Hoover interpreted this presidential request as permission to resume domestic surveillance activities since the European political situation was worsening. By late fall of 1939, Hoover had completely resurrected his General Intelligence Division and had set up a Custodial Detention list of those individuals who should be rounded up in case of war.
Gentry points out that the FBI "expanded tremendously — in authority, jurisdiction, and size [during FDR's first two administrations]. The president had also given his patriarchal blessing to its director, first by refusing to replace Hoover, then by standing up for him when he came under fire."
None of this advantage came free for Hoover. FDR requested surveillance of Huey Long, a potential political rival, and additional investigations were completed on many of the president's opponents.
Bush must have been like having Roosevelt all over again...
But Roosevelt was a great man who would have never used the "New Deal" for political gain...
Of course that total leaves out the information Hoover had on Elanor that caused Roosevelt to be so angry that he wanted to make sure that anyone that knew about the affair would surely be front line material in the war against the Japanese.
Last edited by BigJon3475; 03-16-2009 at 08:07 AM..
"Ever heard of SOCIAL SECURITY that has kept 35% of Americans out of poverty?"
Great program! I'll pay into it for all my working life while dead beats with "back problems" collect a check every month. Guess what will happen if and when I reach retirement age? Give up? Nothing! I'll get nothing just like everyone else in my generation who will pay into socialized insecurity.
Speaking of conservative myths! I'll tell you what...I'll give you ten-to-one against your entire Social Security benefit. And once you lose that bet...what the heck, you won't be any worse off than what you expected to be. Plus, you'll have the added satisfaction of knowing that all that money that you could have had is being forwarded by me to support the work of the ACLU. Deal?
Speaking of conservative myths! I'll tell you what...I'll give you ten-to-one against your entire Social Security benefit. And once you lose that bet...what the heck, you won't be any worse off than what you expected to be. Plus, you'll have the added satisfaction of knowing that all that money that you could have had is being forwarded by me to support the work of the ACLU. Deal?
surprise, surprise, i'm with momoney on this one! we're going to get jack squat out of social security. sure we might have the paper but we won't be able to buy anything with it.
surprise, surprise, i'm with momoney on this one! we're going to get jack squat out of social security. sure we might have the paper but we won't be able to buy anything with it.
Yeah we should have privatized it, since the market has proved to be such a safe place.
Yeah we should have privatized it, since the market has proved to be such a safe place.
nah, we shouldn't have it at all.
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He is still ranked towards the top, despite all the revisionist hacks.
