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Old 02-25-2009, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Here
311 posts, read 317,612 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Property taxes are local, not federal.
Inflation hits every budget.
Are you all not paying more for the same items than you did last year, a decade ago?

I own two houses.
I don't live in a high cost area.
Actually, my houses are in a low-cost area & I live overseas.
it's got nothing to do with inflation! its the property tax! the housing market has deflated
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,641 posts, read 14,082,111 times
Reputation: 11077
Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Good lawd how do you pay it? ... I mean I am semi comfortable, have all my vehicles including a few classic cars paid for and regular cars paid, plus an 08 I ordered on 07.... just the insurance on 6 vehicles is crushing enough (never had an accident)...though I have some relief with Grundy on 2 classics..... I cannot imagine have any cars payments on top of it...

Per year BASICS... just off the top of my head
Prop Taxes - $2,400
Trash pickup - $400
Server - $3,600
Cable - $1,000
Satellite TV - $660
Equity Note - $10,000 (I always pay more than required by $300 to $500
Auto & HO Insurance - $4,500
Cell, wireless - $1,500
Gas Heat - $1000 (guess)
Electric - $1,680
Vet Bills and Dog care - $2,200 incls. training

... and allot more

Someone has to step up and do something about this. Values have gone down, not up... and this is killing people.
Most of this is self-inflicted.
TV is not critical; if you have several cars, you pay the price in insurance; phone bill, your choice, that's high; server almost $4k. Cable is a luxury.

These are lifestyle choices. You could pare down if you chose to do so.
Don't whine about problems of your own making.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Here
311 posts, read 317,612 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by limited60 View Post
Ditto.
But just like the NJGUY, a few posts up who somehow managed to launch a tirade against teachers unions and teachers salaries...the intent of the post was pretty transparent.
it's interesting that all you think about is your "government". this post wasn't complaining about your holy one. It was about the NJ politics, and taxs on property.



Quote:
NJ area rate increases, from what I have read, are in the ballpark of 17%, a big increase, but not what the OP has inferred.
Municipal property tax rate will increase by 17 percent : Eastside
actually, more than I inferred. I can't give you the exact amount, but in some countys it's up to 15,000 a year just to keep their little house!

Quote:
BTW: if you, or your "neighbor"
former neighbor. he lives in NJ now.

Quote:
can't absorb or take on additional costs associated with home ownership, you/they need to be renting or living in a smaller house.
Part of the problem with this housing "crisis" is the typical American spending philosophy of buy now, pay later.
WOW did you just say that?? buy now, pay later?
OK, let me educate you a bit about how a lower middle class hard working family buys a house: they go to a broker, they choose a house that looks like they might be able to afford. THEN they sit by a calculator with their broker and calculate every little fee. everything goes into the calculations because this middle class family can not afford to lose their credit with the banks so they don't want to have monthly payments that are too high.
so they sit down and calculate... OK broker came up with an amount monthly: it will be $xyz a month. the middle class family Mr A living with Mr B and Mr C, all put their money together and fing that they can meet the payment. Mr A makes $x, Mr B makes $y, Mr C makes $z, put it together, and they see that this is the amount they can afford to pay monthly. this includes the tax.

If the middle class family sees that the monthly cost would be $xyzg or $wxyz, they tell the broker "Sorry, we cant afford this. is there another house we can look at?"

now, out of the blue their monthly pay is NOT $xyz that they could afford, but $300+xyz!!

this is irrisponsible! the government is irrisponsible here, not the buyer!!
the buyer knew exactly how much he could afford to pay later. they counted every penny. unlike some irrisponsible libs like some posters here who are too rich to worry about every penny or too much of a moocher to care

Quote:
Serves anyone right if they bought a $500 000 house with a combined household income of only
$50 000.
This is called karma for those who think that credit = money in the bank.
serves the good tax paying citizens right that the fat politicians in NJ decided that 9000 a year was too little to pay for all their personal pig barrals
so they tax the middle class into poverty and homelessness

Quote:
That doesn't change the discussion all that much.
Making purchases on can't afford is irresponsible, and although I lean waaaaay to the left, this is not the responsibility of the government to clean up.
but it is the responsibility of the overtaxed citizens to clean up the gov't's a*s?
remember: it is not the buyer who is the irrisponsible one, but the fat pigs at the government.

Quote:
Costs always go up, but so do wages, and so does property value. If you can't balance your books, even in a worst case scenario, you shouldn't own the things that you can't afford.
Period.
unfortunately, wages don't go up for the honest hard working people, only government beurocrats' salaries, and property value went down. and no, costs do not always go up. not when you so maticulously made sure that morgage rates remain FIXED

It doesn't look like some posters know too much about the ins and outs of buying a house they just want to whine about why the complainers should shut up because the gbment is great

Last edited by Marty McFly Jr; 02-25-2009 at 11:03 PM..
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,641 posts, read 14,082,111 times
Reputation: 11077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr View Post
this is irrisponsible! the government is irrisponsible here, not the buyer!!

remember: it is not the buyer who is the irrisponsible one, but the fat pigs at the government.

unfortunately, wages don't go up for the honest hard working people, only government beurocrats' salaries, and property value went down. and no, costs do not always go up. not when you so maticulously made sure that morgage rates remain FIXED

It doesn't look like some posters know too much about the ins and outs of buying a house they just want to whine about why the complainers should shut up because the gbment is great
It is recommended that you keep 3-6 months contingency funds for emergencies.
If you don't have savings, and you lose your job, what do you think is going to happen?
Stuff happens, Bush destroyed the economy. Hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs in the past 18 months alone.

Do not blame the government for your lack of foresight and ability to plan for future problems.
Yes, there was a housing bubble, yes, you bought into it.
Apparently, you're living beyond your means.
You could have sold your home when it was worth what you think it is.
But, in today's market, it is not worth what you thinnk it should be or what you want it to be.

Suck it up and sell or pay.
Those are your choices.
Whining on an anonymous internet board is not going to help you with your issue.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:43 AM
 
8,193 posts, read 7,615,426 times
Reputation: 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
It is recommended that you keep 3-6 months contingency funds for emergencies.
If you don't have savings, and you lose your job, what do you think is going to happen?
Stuff happens, Bush destroyed the economy. Hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs in the past 18 months alone.

Do not blame the government for your lack of foresight and ability to plan for future problems.
Yes, there was a housing bubble, yes, you bought into it.
Apparently, you're living beyond your means.
You could have sold your home when it was worth what you think it is.
But, in today's market, it is not worth what you thinnk it should be or what you want it to be.

Suck it up and sell or pay.
Those are your choices.
Whining on an anonymous internet board is not going to help you with your issue.

I do agree with you about people who deliberatly bought a house that was far above their ability to pay for it.
But this is not the case.....this is about escalating property taxation - somthing that is getting completely out of hand in certain parts of the country.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:01 AM
 
42 posts, read 34,536 times
Reputation: 27
[quote=Marty McFly Jr;7634591] it's interesting that all you think about is your "government". this post wasn't complaining about your holy one. It was about the NJ politics, and taxs on property. [quote]

My holy one?? This makes no sense. I'm an agnostic and I'm Canadian. There are no "holy" ones in or near my life, metaphorically or otherwise.
...and of course I'm thinking about the government...taxes fall beneath the government's umbrella.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr View Post
actually, more than I inferred. I can't give you the exact amount, but in some countys it's up to 15,000 a year just to keep their little house!
That would be your responsibility if you want to make a point. Pulling numbers out of the air doesn't give them inherent validity. I linked to a site which listed property taxes by county. If you see something wrong with that link or with those numbers and you can link me to an authoritative source that can counter those numbers, then be my guest. You could say that "some counties are up $27646578349439 a year", but it's meaningless as a specific example with no data to support it, and it's generally meaningless because ONE county is not the rule, rather, it is the exception. Either way, you have provided no data to support any of your claims, just anecdote and hyperbole.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr View Post
WOW did you just say that?? buy now, pay later?
OK, let me educate you a bit about how a lower middle class hard working family buys a house: they go to a broker, they choose a house that looks like they might be able to afford. THEN they sit by a calculator with their broker and calculate every little fee. everything goes into the calculations because this middle class family can not afford to lose their credit with the banks so they don't want to have monthly payments that are too high.
so they sit down and calculate... OK broker came up with an amount monthly: it will be $xyz a month. the middle class family Mr A living with Mr B and Mr C, all put their money together and fing that they can meet the payment. Mr A makes $x, Mr B makes $y, Mr C makes $z, put it together, and they see that this is the amount they can afford to pay monthly. this includes the tax.

If the middle class family sees that the monthly cost would be $xyzg or $wxyz, they tell the broker "Sorry, we cant afford this. is there another house we can look at?"

now, out of the blue their monthly pay is NOT $xyz that they could afford, but $300+xyz!!

this is irrisponsible! the government is irrisponsible here, not the buyer!!
the buyer knew exactly how much he could afford to pay later. they counted every penny. unlike some irrisponsible libs like some posters here who are too rich to worry about every penny or too much of a moocher to care
Condescension and pointless partisan jabs aside...financial irresponsibility is a problem in North America. This is not the problem of the banks, the government or of the dried up worms on the street. It has to do with people buying more than they can afford because there exists this sense of entitlement for consumer goods.
Did you know...
Total bankcard debt per bankcard borrower" is $5,710. This was alternately described as the total balance of bank-issued credit cards per consumer. (Source: TransUnion, December 2008)
55 percent of credit card users keep a balance on their credit card, up 2 percent from 2007. (Source: ComScore, September 2008)
The average American with a credit file is responsible for $16,635 in debt, excluding mortages, according to Experian. (Source: U.S. News and World Report, "The End of Credit Card Consumerism," August 2008)
Credit card industry facts, debt statistics

Do you really think anyone is so daft as to believe that someone must pay cash for a house or that a home is an impulse purchase?
No, it's a major purchase, and I hazard a guess, that is often done where people think, how long can I stretch out the ammortization so I can by more sq.ft., and how low can I get the payments....
banks want longer ammortizations, they want lower payments, they want lower downpayments....this coheres with the desires of the purchaser.
The thing people probably din't take into consideration, as we have seen with the housing bubble EXPLODING and the foreclosure epidemic, is the recurring costs of home ownership, and the possibilities of unforeseen circumstances (like tax rate increases, faulty furnace or water heated, flooded basement). No rainy day fund and no means to absorb increasing....well....anything. Paycheck to paycheck, mortgage payment to mortgage payment = disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr View Post
serves the good tax paying citizens right that the fat politicians in NJ decided that 9000 a year was too little to pay for all their personal pig barralsso they tax the middle class into poverty and homelessness
You need to start baking up your "facts"...you can claim anything you want with any literary device you choose, the fact remains that you have none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr View Post
but it is the responsibility of the overtaxed citizens to clean up the gov't's a*s?
remember: it is not the buyer who is the irrisponsible one, but the fat pigs at the government.
Remember, government officials are elected by the people. Remember that the majority of the money that they collect goes to finance and fund things everyone needs...infrastructure, schools, police, fire, etc. Please cite the proportion of the taxes that have been squandered away by the "fat pigs" in government as compared to the tax dollars that have been used to finance the running and upkeep of the state.
I anxiously await this data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr View Post
unfortunately, wages don't go up for the honest hard working people, only government beurocrats' salaries, and property value went down. and no, costs do not always go up. not when you so maticulously made sure that morgage rates remain FIXED
Costs will always go up (gas, property tax, property value, wages, cost of employment etc.) Mortgage rates will fluctuate.
If you don't believe me, peruse the US dept of Labor website and find conflicting data. You'll find that there has been a steady increase accross the board....even for honest working people. Inflation, on occasion, succeeds in lending the appearance of stagnant income, but, the fact remains that wages have gone up and will continue to do so, as a general rule.
http://www.bls.gov/data/
Your claim is equivalent to stating that the stock market declines because right now it is in a state of decline. But the stock market always goes up. Always has, always will....but this is governed by the law of averages. Looking at a point in time gives only half the story, while looking at the whole often tells it all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty McFly Jr View Post
It doesn't look like some posters know too much about the ins and outs of buying a house they just want to whine about why the complainers should shut up because the gbment is great
I currently own 2 houses....so I have a bit of information about the "ins and outs" of home buying.
You really aren't into backing up any of your claims, nor are you really into actually reading what other posters have had to say. Please point out the sentence or phrase where I said the "gbment is great".
I anxiously await this response as well.

Looking forward to your next message.
L60

Last edited by limited60; 02-26-2009 at 08:15 AM..
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:28 AM
 
42 posts, read 34,536 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Good lawd how do you pay it? ... I mean I am semi comfortable, have all my vehicles including a few classic cars paid for and regular cars paid, plus an 08 I ordered on 07.... just the insurance on 6 vehicles is crushing enough (never had an accident)...though I have some relief with Grundy on 2 classics..... I cannot imagine have any cars payments on top of it...

Per year BASICS... just off the top of my head
First off, these are not basics. Much of this is frivolous, non essential spending. The only one who has to "step in and do something" is you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Prop Taxes - $2,400
This is less than what you pay for your server charges. For $2400 you get all the infrastructure, cops, fire, teachers, new schools etc. If YOU don't directly benefit from those things, you either have at some point or will at a future date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Trash pickup - $400
Isn't this buried into the property taxes? Mine is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Server - $3,600
Now, is this "internet" or are you running a business off a server, or does this include web hosting fees etc. If it's straight up internet, there are much cheaper options than paying $300/mo.
Seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Cable - $1,000
Satellite TV - $660
I have a beautiful 50" plasma, but have NEVER had cable or satellite. The internet has pretty much everything you need, and basic cable, if you must have it, costs far less than this. May as well roll a a-note stogie and smoke it. What a waste of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Auto & HO Insurance - $4,500
Pure pork spending...6 cars....you could absolutely slash this cost nearly instantly, not to mention collecting some money from the sales of the vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Cell, wireless - $1,500
Believe it or not, cell phones are not a necessity. If one really falls on hard times, this kind of "basic" needs to be washed from the balance sheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
Gas Heat - $1000 (guess)
Electric - $1,680
Vet Bills and Dog care - $2,200 incls. training
$2200 in vet bills? Seriously. Do you have a cocker spaniel or what? I haven't spent that over the lifetime of my 9 year old Rotti-Shep's life. These are non-negotiable spending figures, you can keep a cooler house in the winter and a warmer house in the summer, but a dog needs to see the vet. Sucks that it costs so much annually...but training a dog is actually free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
... and allot more
Yeah, I looked at what I spent monthly on store bought coffee...$2/day x 5 days = $10. That came to a minimum of $520/year. I quit drinking coffee.
Alcohol, the odd 6 pack here and there, out with friends socializing...$100/month, or $1200/year. I didn't stop going out, I stopped drinking.
I needed a new machine for my business, but realized that I could no longer pay cash for it, so I'm waiting and saving. There is a land of financial reality. Some of us live within it, others are galaxies away.

I simply don't get the mentality of people and the sense of entitlement they seem to have (not speaking specifically about "chick") for consumer goods and services that are not necessities.

Since I have been looking for foreclosure properties to purchase, it's pretty common to see these 2000sq ft+ in foreclosure. What happened to moderation, or buying a 1500 sq ft home? 2000+ and I emphasize the PLUS is pretty commmonplace.
Here's an example from 5 Oakland districts...
Foreclosure, Short Sale, "Non-Distressed" Average Price Comparison in Oakland & Piedmont | (http://homesacrossthebridge.com/blog/2009/02/13/foreclosure-short-sale-non-distressed-average-price-comparison-in-oakland-piedmont/ - broken link)

Pretty hard to feel compassion for somebody who bought a house for
$600 000 - $1 500 000 and can't make their payments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chick
Someone has to step up and do something about this. Values have gone down, not up... and this is killing people.
People need to realize that much of this has nothing to do with "values going down" or property taxes going up. I would hazard a guess, that like many of my neighbors, friends, coworkers, these people want the nice things and are *shocked* that they actually have to pay for them....new cars, new clothes, new homes, new furniture, new electronics...
Seriously, consumerism in the US, and to less of an extent in Canada, has gone crazy.
Let 'em sink, let 'em learn.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Metrowest area of Massachusetts
576 posts, read 2,895,946 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Most of this is self-inflicted.
TV is not critical; if you have several cars, you pay the price in insurance; phone bill, your choice, that's high; server almost $4k. Cable is a luxury.

These are lifestyle choices. You could pare down if you chose to do so.
Don't whine about problems of your own making.
No ones whining honey... spoken like a true leftard

I am not complaining about the server or the auto insurance, or my my dogs training... I was adding that in to show NORMAL people have bills other than just a mortgage and property taxes .... I do however have to have telephone which includes cells and wireless laptop service for when I am in the road (work) and cable for home work... I have a business to run.

What do you think people should do? Be house poor?

There is NO excuse for these high and jacked property taxes other than greed and bloated government.

Again I was not complaining about my bills, got that straight?
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Metrowest area of Massachusetts
576 posts, read 2,895,946 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by limited60 View Post
First off, these are not basics. Much of this is frivolous, non essential spending. The only one who has to "step in and do something" is you.

This is less than what you pay for your server charges. For $2400 you get all the infrastructure, cops, fire, teachers, new schools etc. If YOU don't directly benefit from those things, you either have at some point or will at a future date.

Isn't this buried into the property taxes? Mine is.

Now, is this "internet" or are you running a business off a server, or does this include web hosting fees etc. If it's straight up internet, there are much cheaper options than paying $300/mo.
Seriously.

I have a beautiful 50" plasma, but have NEVER had cable or satellite. The internet has pretty much everything you need, and basic cable, if you must have it, costs far less than this. May as well roll a a-note stogie and smoke it. What a waste of money.

Pure pork spending...6 cars....you could absolutely slash this cost nearly instantly, not to mention collecting some money from the sales of the vehicles.

Believe it or not, cell phones are not a necessity. If one really falls on hard times, this kind of "basic" needs to be washed from the balance sheet.

$2200 in vet bills? Seriously. Do you have a cocker spaniel or what? I haven't spent that over the lifetime of my 9 year old Rotti-Shep's life. These are non-negotiable spending figures, you can keep a cooler house in the winter and a warmer house in the summer, but a dog needs to see the vet. Sucks that it costs so much annually...but training a dog is actually free.

Yeah, I looked at what I spent monthly on store bought coffee...$2/day x 5 days = $10. That came to a minimum of $520/year. I quit drinking coffee.
Alcohol, the odd 6 pack here and there, out with friends socializing...$100/month, or $1200/year. I didn't stop going out, I stopped drinking.
I needed a new machine for my business, but realized that I could no longer pay cash for it, so I'm waiting and saving. There is a land of financial reality. Some of us live within it, others are galaxies away.

I simply don't get the mentality of people and the sense of entitlement they seem to have (not speaking specifically about "chick") for consumer goods and services that are not necessities.

Since I have been looking for foreclosure properties to purchase, it's pretty common to see these 2000sq ft+ in foreclosure. What happened to moderation, or buying a 1500 sq ft home? 2000+ and I emphasize the PLUS is pretty commmonplace.

Here's an example from 5 Oakland districts...
Foreclosure, Short Sale, "Non-Distressed" Average Price Comparison in Oakland & Piedmont | (http://homesacrossthebridge.com/blog/2009/02/13/foreclosure-short-sale-non-distressed-average-price-comparison-in-oakland-piedmont/ - broken link)

Pretty hard to feel compassion for somebody who bought a house for
$600 000 - $1 500 000 and can't make their payments.

People need to realize that much of this has nothing to do with "values going down" or property taxes going up. I would hazard a guess, that like many of my neighbors, friends, coworkers, these people want the nice things and are *shocked* that they actually have to pay for them....new cars, new clothes, new homes, new furniture, new electronics...

Seriously, consumerism in the US, and to less of an extent in Canada, has gone crazy.

Let 'em sink, let 'em learn.
One more clarification... I have no payments on anything but what I posted....NO car payments or furniture payments or cc debt, or personal loans and it is irrelevant if anyone has or has no other debt.

And they are NOT vet bills... I factored all my k9's bills in... training is the major cost, my choice no complaints here.

The government is ripping us off. Too many cops who do nothing. I'll protect myself.... I get nothing for my property tax dollar, except fire which is necessary. Thats all that benfits me, NOTHING MORE.
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Old 02-28-2009, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,641 posts, read 14,082,111 times
Reputation: 11077
Quote:
Originally Posted by chick View Post
No ones whining honey... spoken like a true leftard

I am not complaining about the server or the auto insurance, or my my dogs training... I was adding that in to show NORMAL people have bills other than just a mortgage and property taxes .... I do however have to have telephone which includes cells and wireless laptop service for when I am in the road (work) and cable for home work... I have a business to run.

What do you think people should do? Be house poor?

There is NO excuse for these high and jacked property taxes other than greed and bloated government.

Again I was not complaining about my bills, got that straight?
No, people should not be house poor.
They should purchase a home within their means that don't require them to be house poor and whine, as you did.

Nice name calling, btw.
Good to see that you stoop to it as a valid argument when facts get in the way.

BTW, I own a few houses outright and have no extraneous costs or bills.
I do know how to live within my means. And without whining.
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