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View Poll Results: Should all Americans pay at least some tax?
Yes - All Americans should pay at least some minimum tax. 48 82.76%
No - 45% of Americans paying zero income tax is fair. 10 17.24%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-02-2009, 07:16 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,390,011 times
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What you guys don't want to pay for a shrimp farm in Arizona, the train to the Bunny Ranch in Nevada or wood utilization for hardwood floors?

Last edited by BigJon3475; 03-02-2009 at 07:44 AM..
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:36 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,417,965 times
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Want more people to pay income taxes? Fine...move all the welfare people back over to HHS and take them off the IRS rolls. We'll just cut them a check out of HHS every month, and tons of people who currently have negative income tax liability will move back into the positive range. That's the way things used to be. But you all complained about that. So we turned welfare into workfare. You have to work to get benefits and that's administered by the IRS and the beneifits you are eligible for are paid through the EITC and refundable credits. Now you complain that some people aren't paying any income tax. Well, duh!!! That's exactly the system you asked for. Make up your freaking minds....which way do you want it???
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:19 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,732,375 times
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Any progressive taxation scheme is not only immoral but irrational. Why? My stupid analogy.

Two men enter a coffee shop. Both men order a cup of coffee. The owner determines that on man is 10 times as wealthy as the other. The poor guy is charged 50 cents and the rich guy is charged 5 dollars.

I warned that it was stupid. Still, I fail to see the "fairness" of it in any way.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,048,764 times
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There is either a basic misunderstanding or an intentional distortion in the phrasing of the question.

All Americans do pay taxes. Not all Americans pay income taxes.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,759,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican View Post
I think a progressive system is fine to an extent. Assume that taxable income up to $10,000 is taxed at a flat 5%, and went up from there. Does that seem fair to you? Does it seem fair that the effective tax rate for many Americans is actually a negative number due to refundable tax credits and the EIC?
But when it comes down to "extent", should we go by objectivity (share of wealth and/or income) or subjectivity ("I feel like...")?

Something you likely omitted from your poll (and OP) is that the poor do pay medicare and payroll taxes, don't they? Besides, the lifeline of the GOP today could be held largely responsible for what you're complaining about:
Reagan's Tax Revolution: A Big Boost for Families and the Poor

Do you disagree with everything in that article? Is there something you agree with?
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,048,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Any progressive taxation scheme is not only immoral but irrational. Why? My stupid analogy.

Two men enter a coffee shop. Both men order a cup of coffee. The owner determines that on man is 10 times as wealthy as the other. The poor guy is charged 50 cents and the rich guy is charged 5 dollars.

I warned that it was stupid. Still, I fail to see the "fairness" of it in any way.
That is the problem with analogies. They often lead to very simplistic conclusions. Who benefits more from living in the United States? The rich, that's why they pay more.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:30 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,417,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
I warned that it was stupid. Still, I fail to see the "fairness" of it in any way.
Three words: marginal utility theory.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:32 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,732,375 times
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Even if it were possible to evade every form of overt confiscation in America. Including Federal, State, sales, excise, etc., taxes, you would still not be free from paying taxes in reality.

Our entire economy is riddled with the inflated costs of taxation. Every product or service you buy has the bloated cost of taxation built in. It is perhaps impossible for any man to truly determine the full cost of taxation and its cost of compliance insidiously hidden in every aspect of our economy. Rest assured that no person can free himself from its burden no matter how mightily he resists. It is impossible.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,732,375 times
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I could just as easily say that the poor benefit more from services and thus should pay more than the rich.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,759,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Any progressive taxation scheme is not only immoral but irrational...
I could never guess that the concepts in The Wealth of Nations would be seen as immoral and irrational by some. To quote:

What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable.
- Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations

"It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more in proportion."
- Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations

Adam Smith must have been an immoral, irrational, socialist.
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