Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-15-2009, 09:23 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,401,256 times
Reputation: 4798

Advertisements

They did good with medicare and medicaid in it's funding a Veterans Affairs...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-15-2009, 10:13 PM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,100 posts, read 9,096,576 times
Reputation: 5191
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNKY View Post
"Unconscionable" is about as accurate a description of these fools as you can get. Something has to be done and now. I'm no fan of Pelosi or Feingold, but they're right on this topic. Does AIG not realize they are under the microscope unlike all the previous years of wastefulness? Make an example out of em.

Russ Feingold is the senator who has voted against bailouts, voted against FISA, voted against earmarks, voted against letting lobbyist taking control of the government through campaign contributions, voted against the "patriot" act that has taken away so many of our constitutional freedom, and voted against the Iraq war. And you're not a fan? Heck, most of the time I think he is the only one in the Senate who has brains, ethics and guts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2009, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,842,192 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Enough is enough. These people are simply unconscionable. Take over the company, fire the the executives and the board. Rebuild it, then sell it when it's viable and laws are in place to prevent the shenanigans.

Breaking News and Opinion on The Huffington Post
That's a horrible idea... let the company fail. It's a free market, let it work.

THERE IS NO TOO BIG TO FAIL!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2009, 10:38 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,755,915 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Quite right. It essentially is nationalized. The bonuses are but a tiny percentage of the total bailout money. Unfortunately, it's either let it collapse or feed the pig. Stopping bonuses essentially plays to cheap populism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom View Post
I disagree, living up to contractual obligations is essential to capitalism. Bailouts are faux capitalism and is what the traditional conservative (or paleo, to use your term) objects to.

As long as there is the prospect of a bailout, companies and individuals will take excessive risk, or, worse yet, proceed without fully comprehending the risk. So I do agree that faux capitalism sucks, even if we may disagree on exactly what that is.
All agree it is nationalized at this point. PT Barnum antics left no other choice than to revoke the privilege of spoiled rotten brats.

Bonuses for failure are a blatant example of being rewarded for failure, AKA faux capitalism. Bailouts are a remedy to compensate for lack of leadership controlling faux capitalism in the first place. So lets be realistic here- if we own 80%, this now means that 'bailout' was actually a purchase of an asset. An ounce of prevention was worth a pound of cure. Paleo's were guardians, just as progressives are, to prevent abuses of the system. Purist capitalism is a cannibal. KNOW THIS.

Neo cons usurping the party blindly railing at anything standing in your way in the form of deregulation...

America is now in the position the left coast was when Enron ran amok. You should have defended your brother california years ago and you sat on your rear ends saying I've got mine who cares. Care now?

If I were president and wanted to get the economy under control I'd put the head of every version of Madeoff weasel on a pike. That's probably why I'm not qualified to be president. Wall street good old boy network is no different than southern good old boys exploiting their own people, and no different that monolithic scale monopolistic corporatism... none of this is legitimate commerce. None of it is legit capitalism. We the people, investor confidence, legit business, long term economic health... the regulations restoring a fair deal for all parties involved must be restored. Wanton deregulation meant to help small biz ventures only fed the big fish the small fish. Look for yourselves and be honest.

The very fact that mark to market accounting methods are still being used this far after the fact of Enron shennanigans is why the raping continues. The buck stops here policy must be adopted in congress, senate, and executive- get that nonsense beancounting out of there. Investing in america short & long term- OK. Letting faux capitalism who wrote their own ticket purchasing pet legislative grace and favor continue to write their own ticket... I think every political party has a huge problem with that. Think again at who your enemy is, was, and will ever be. While right was hell bent on ranting villain at left, charlatans robbed us all blind.

Obama has been going after crooks by putting the spotlight on them directly for all to see. Wall street, AIG, Switzerland, Bermuda... Look!!! They either have legit commerce, or they do not. There is your sink or swim capitalism, and may the law prevail for all our sakes. You've got a better plan? Go ahead and speak it. He's not deaf but if you're being disrespectful no one can hear a damned thing.

Privitization- True confession; if you're too big to fail, you're a monopoly. AIG had no business being a floating nation pitting soveriegn economies off one another. That's a very dangerous thing in foreign relations. Beware. Heed Jefferson's warnings.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2009, 11:03 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,262,242 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
All agree it is nationalized at this point. PT Barnum antics left no other choice than to revoke the privilege of spoiled rotten brats.

Bonuses for failure are a blatant example of being rewarded for failure, AKA faux capitalism. Bailouts are a remedy to compensate for lack of leadership controlling faux capitalism in the first place. So lets be realistic here- if we own 80%, this now means that 'bailout' was actually a purchase of an asset. An ounce of prevention was worth a pound of cure. Paleo's were guardians, just as progressives are, to prevent abuses of the system. Purist capitalism is a cannibal. KNOW THIS.

Neo cons usurping the party blindly railing at anything standing in your way in the form of deregulation...

America is now in the position the left coast was when Enron ran amok. You should have defended your brother california years ago and you sat on your rear ends saying I've got mine who cares. Care now?

If I were president and wanted to get the economy under control I'd put the head of every version of Madeoff weasel on a pike. That's probably why I'm not qualified to be president. Wall street good old boy network is no different than southern good old boys exploiting their own people, and no different that monolithic scale monopolistic corporatism... none of this is legitimate commerce. None of it is legit capitalism. We the people, investor confidence, legit business, long term economic health... the regulations restoring a fair deal for all parties involved must be restored. Wanton deregulation meant to help small biz ventures only fed the big fish the small fish. Look for yourselves and be honest.

The very fact that mark to market accounting methods are still being used this far after the fact of Enron shennanigans is why the raping continues. The buck stops here policy must be adopted in congress, senate, and executive- get that nonsense beancounting out of there. Investing in america short & long term- OK. Letting faux capitalism who wrote their own ticket purchasing pet legislative grace and favor continue to write their own ticket... I think every political party has a huge problem with that. Think again at who your enemy is, was, and will ever be. While right was hell bent on ranting villain at left, charlatans robbed us all blind.

Obama has been going after crooks by putting the spotlight on them directly for all to see. Wall street, AIG, Switzerland, Bermuda... Look!!! They either have legit commerce, or they do not. There is your sink or swim capitalism, and may the law prevail for all our sakes. You've got a better plan? Go ahead and speak it. He's not deaf but if you're being disrespectful no one can hear a damned thing.

Privitization- True confession; if you're too big to fail, you're a monopoly. AIG had no business being a floating nation pitting soveriegn economies off one another. That's a very dangerous thing in foreign relations. Beware. Heed Jefferson's warnings.
GREAT post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2009, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,842,192 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
All agree it is nationalized at this point. PT Barnum antics left no other choice than to revoke the privilege of spoiled rotten brats.

Bonuses for failure are a blatant example of being rewarded for failure, AKA faux capitalism. Bailouts are a remedy to compensate for lack of leadership controlling faux capitalism in the first place. So lets be realistic here- if we own 80%, this now means that 'bailout' was actually a purchase of an asset. An ounce of prevention was worth a pound of cure. Paleo's were guardians, just as progressives are, to prevent abuses of the system. Purist capitalism is a cannibal. KNOW THIS.

Neo cons usurping the party blindly railing at anything standing in your way in the form of deregulation...

America is now in the position the left coast was when Enron ran amok. You should have defended your brother california years ago and you sat on your rear ends saying I've got mine who cares. Care now?

If I were president and wanted to get the economy under control I'd put the head of every version of Madeoff weasel on a pike. That's probably why I'm not qualified to be president. Wall street good old boy network is no different than southern good old boys exploiting their own people, and no different that monolithic scale monopolistic corporatism... none of this is legitimate commerce. None of it is legit capitalism. We the people, investor confidence, legit business, long term economic health... the regulations restoring a fair deal for all parties involved must be restored. Wanton deregulation meant to help small biz ventures only fed the big fish the small fish. Look for yourselves and be honest.

The very fact that mark to market accounting methods are still being used this far after the fact of Enron shennanigans is why the raping continues. The buck stops here policy must be adopted in congress, senate, and executive- get that nonsense beancounting out of there. Investing in america short & long term- OK. Letting faux capitalism who wrote their own ticket purchasing pet legislative grace and favor continue to write their own ticket... I think every political party has a huge problem with that. Think again at who your enemy is, was, and will ever be. While right was hell bent on ranting villain at left, charlatans robbed us all blind.

Obama has been going after crooks by putting the spotlight on them directly for all to see. Wall street, AIG, Switzerland, Bermuda... Look!!! They either have legit commerce, or they do not. There is your sink or swim capitalism, and may the law prevail for all our sakes. You've got a better plan? Go ahead and speak it. He's not deaf but if you're being disrespectful no one can hear a damned thing.

Privitization- True confession; if you're too big to fail, you're a monopoly. AIG had no business being a floating nation pitting soveriegn economies off one another. That's a very dangerous thing in foreign relations. Beware. Heed Jefferson's warnings.
Please spend a moment and look into who was in charge of the banking commitee, the insurance and finance commitees....

there are 3 branches of guvment, that share the power, you can't just point to neo cons and blame....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2009, 08:29 AM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,755,915 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Please spend a moment and look into who was in charge of the banking commitee, the insurance and finance commitees....

there are 3 branches of guvment, that share the power, you can't just point to neo cons and blame....
Au contraire- Who was permitted to say no? They came in like gangbusters, steamrolled over everyone, muscled judicial branch to get their way. There was no open door policy with bush. There was his way or the highway, and if you didn't like it you're an enemy combatant.

How many lawyers were wrongfully terminated in the justice dept when he came into office?

Where were the cops when Enron kicked in full gear? Another hamstrung Federal agency instructed to twiddle it's thumbs for over a year.

How many times did dems stand outside on congress steps in protest? Why were they there?

Why were there no dissenting views among republicans while Bush was in office? Why was everything yes yes yes unquestioned?

Did you not find it odd that people were conspicuously silent? New York Times avoided issues. That didn't seem eerie to you at all?

Peaceful protests were suppressed. Why?

Why were cops on horses sent by Guilianni to misdirect a peaceful protest into an alley by force. These were senior citzens. They were issued a permit legally and law enforcement officers were used to break the law. NYC cops hate Guiliani. Why?

The ACLU was silent. Why?

911 families, responders, and the entire metro region did not give their vote to bush. Why?

Keith Olberman rants... When have you ever heard any liberal so venomously attack, sustained for years with unshakable conviction, a sitting president? This is not a chance happening. This is not a cyclical event. This is not a man who hates true republicans.

Why were liberals practically begging for conservative policy?

Why were moderates trying to negotiate, but stonewalled, for the exact same thing?

Find the answers if you really mean to know. The checks and balances as we've come to rely on for 200 yrs are effectively null set or opportunistically circumvented by precedent of executive branch. The door is wide open. Liberals are calling on congress, senate, and Obama to get it closed permanently. They're correct to be worried. Democracy is not safe until that door is closed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Maine
7,727 posts, read 12,354,717 times
Reputation: 8344
Excellant post Harborlady
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2009, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,842,192 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Au contraire- Who was permitted to say no? They came in like gangbusters, steamrolled over everyone, muscled judicial branch to get their way. There was no open door policy with bush. There was his way or the highway, and if you didn't like it you're an enemy combatant.

How many lawyers were wrongfully terminated in the justice dept when he came into office?

Where were the cops when Enron kicked in full gear? Another hamstrung Federal agency instructed to twiddle it's thumbs for over a year.

How many times did dems stand outside on congress steps in protest? Why were they there?

Why were there no dissenting views among republicans while Bush was in office? Why was everything yes yes yes unquestioned?

Did you not find it odd that people were conspicuously silent? New York Times avoided issues. That didn't seem eerie to you at all?

Peaceful protests were suppressed. Why?

Why were cops on horses sent by Guilianni to misdirect a peaceful protest into an alley by force. These were senior citzens. They were issued a permit legally and law enforcement officers were used to break the law. NYC cops hate Guiliani. Why?

The ACLU was silent. Why?

911 families, responders, and the entire metro region did not give their vote to bush. Why?

Keith Olberman rants... When have you ever heard any liberal so venomously attack, sustained for years with unshakable conviction, a sitting president? This is not a chance happening. This is not a cyclical event. This is not a man who hates true republicans.

Why were liberals practically begging for conservative policy?

Why were moderates trying to negotiate, but stonewalled, for the exact same thing?

Find the answers if you really mean to know. The checks and balances as we've come to rely on for 200 yrs are effectively null set or opportunistically circumvented by precedent of executive branch. The door is wide open. Liberals are calling on congress, senate, and Obama to get it closed permanently. They're correct to be worried. Democracy is not safe until that door is closed.
Everything you listed pales in comparison to the Socialist agenda of this congresss and administration.
Obama Chavez is methodically taking apart the constitution and leaving it on the scrap pile of history.

He is starting a Class war that will be the undueing of our freedoms.

He must destroy our economy in order to create a police state, watch for marshall law in a neighborhood near you, it could be as soon as this summer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2009, 08:55 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,401,256 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Au contraire- Who was permitted to say no? They came in like gangbusters, steamrolled over everyone, muscled judicial branch to get their way. There was no open door policy with bush. There was his way or the highway, and if you didn't like it you're an enemy combatant.
With all due respect Robert Rubin, Franklin Raines, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Madoff, Robert Stanford all lean to the left and in the case of Rubin and Raines they both worked in the Clinton administration. Rubin of Citi and Raines of Fannie. Both played very key roles along with Mudd who was next in line after Raines....

Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
How many lawyers were wrongfully terminated in the justice dept when he came into office?
About 10% of the amount Clinton replaced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Where were the cops when Enron kicked in full gear? Another hamstrung Federal agency instructed to twiddle it's thumbs for over a year.
Holy cow...so a century long establishment falls on Bush's watch and somehow the entity is all his fault? Where was the oversight from the SEC prior and from prior administrations? The scam going on there wasn't 1 year old when Bush took over and it filed bankruptcy on Dec 2, 2001.


The rest of the "claims" are innuendos. If I thought it was all one parties fault I could come to those same conclusions you did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:18 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top