For all you guys who want nationalized health care (unemployed, myth, compared)

[Greatday]

To TM: Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn if you respect me or not - your statements are nothing more than meaningless rhetoric as far as I am concerned.

Now - back to the topic: TM states, with definite certainty, how a UHC / UHI program WILL WORK in the US. All one needs to do is read her posts to verify what I just said. She says everyone WILL BE ABLE to buy supplemental insurance etc. Here is the problem with TM's diatribes: NO LAW HAS BEEN WRITTEN - NO LAW HAS BEEN PROPOSED (IN LEGISLATIVE FORM). IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE - LEAST OF ALL TM TO KNOW WHAT WILL OR WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE. She is blowing smoke out of her posterior. Yet, she will not admit it.

Yes, if we get a UHC/UHI we MAY be able to get supplementals - if the insurance companies stay open - which there is no way of KNOWING at this time.

[camping!]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

I've dealt with SS, I'f dealt with IRS and I've even dealt with immigration.

As far as WAIT TIMES.. you're kidding right? ARe you aware that WAIT TIMES exist in the U.S too? Guess what.. I need an appointment with an endocronologist here in the new area I moved into. I called.. do you KNOW when I could get my first appointment ? JUNE 5th..LOL I made the happointment MARCH 10th and cant' get in till JUNE 5th!!

BTW.. it's also relative to where you live. The more people there are in an area the longer the wait time is to get into see any Dr. INCLUDING a primary care DR. I've tried to get an appointment with a primary care /internist for my mother in law when she came down with pink eye when visiting.. you know what they told me.. it would be 3 weeks before she could get in for an appointment.. she would have lost her eye by then! But guess what.. my mom that lives in a little small town in the middle of MT can get in whenever she wants to see the Dr's.. BECAUSE THEY HAVE LEss concentration of people!!

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO with UHC or NOn UHC

A few thoughts on your post......

The first is if you have really dealt with immigration, the IRS (and I do mean beyond calling their help line), and ss admin then you would not be so blythly suggesting that goverment controlled health care is the best option. I mean, really -- just what were you attempting with all three agencies that I happened to mentioned? Because I have to tell you - those of us with internationally adopted children can tell you stories about the ineptitude of our government that would make your hair stand up on end.

My second and third thoughts are these - thank you for supporting my viewpoint. After all, what you are saying is that the more people a health care system is designed to deal with, the less feasible it becomes.
As far as your pink eye problem -- getting the first available appointment is not a case of health care rationing. In the case of being out of town with a non life threatening medical condition, the place to go would have been an emergent care. I have utilized these places myself while on vacation, and even when I'm not but cannot wait to get into seeing my regular dr.

Really, TM you are arguing for a system that you know nothing about. All you hear is 'change' and you are ready to not only sign up for it, but call everyone else 'twits' for not agreeing with you. Universal health care is too important for each of us and our descendents to take a (stupid, close minded) partisan stance. As I believe you are. Just because 'your' guy thinks its great doesn't mean it will be. Again, like it or not people are going to debate this to death once all the details become clear. And that doesn't mean they hate obama, it just means we need to fully understand what our politicans have planned for us.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I don't quite get how IVF isn't covered, yet there are still statistics on the wait time for it???? Is this at private clinics? How does this compare to wait times in the US?

Have you ever dealt with insurance companies in the US? I do, almost every day at work. Yesterday, I almost screamed in frustration while on the phone with a dumb-a** voice recognition system that was pretending to be a real person, trying to find out if a pt. needed a prior authorization (authorization before the fact) for a CT scan of his head due to a head injury. "Press this, press that, blah, blah". It was nuts! That is just one example. It might not be any better with UHC, but it probably won't be any worse, either, bureaucratically speaking.

Yes, your experience is very frustrating as I too detest those automated systems where you have to interact with a computer. I was wondering if you or others who support UHC have ever had to endure waiting lists for procedures such surgery or psychiatrict treatment, etc? What if you needed surgery or cancer treatments and the waiting list under UHC was 17 weeks? If the government is the one controlling health care, how could you bypass that waiting period?

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

To TM: Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn if you respect me or not - your statements are nothing more than meaningless rhetoric as far as I am concerned.

Now - back to the topic: TM states, with definite certainty, how a UHC / UHI program WILL WORK in the US. All one needs to do is read her posts to verify what I just said. She says everyone WILL BE ABLE to buy supplemental insurance etc. Here is the problem with TM's diatribes: NO LAW HAS BEEN WRITTEN - NO LAW HAS BEEN PROPOSED (IN LEGISLATIVE FORM). IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE - LEAST OF ALL TM TO KNOW WHAT WILL OR WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE. She is blowing smoke out of her posterior. Yet, she will not admit it.

Yes, if we get a UHC/UHI we MAY be able to get supplementals - if the insurance companies stay open - which there is no way of KNOWING at this time.

I didn't say that it was definate I was speaking OF AN EXAMPLE of such a thing!!! What that means is that, if a law would be written for a UHC / NHC.. it SHOULD and COULD be framed onsuch a basis

But anyway.. when it comes to you.. I'm not spitting rhetoric. I have NO respect whatsoever for a person who says he is a "minister" which makes him a spiritual leader and then makes statements like you have made on these boards... your own words GD. Your type is the reason I stopped going to a "church" or subscribing to religion.. it's completely hypocritical..completely.

Yeah.. you have compassion for the homeless BECAUSE you were one once..BUT can you ONLY have compassion for situations you once found yourself in, or is it impossible for you to put yourself in someone else's shoes.. IN the shoes of a person sick and unable to obtain medical care? or a person who is trying to escape a dire situation and poor living conditions for a better life. How so nieve and stupid to tell someone to "come here legally" when all means of coming here legally are blocked for that person. That's like telling a person with no legs to walk!!

You are typical of many Americans who can not see beyond their own nose! And your posts have completely reflect that. I give when I can where I can for all different causes and concerns. I don't do it because " I was there once" .. I do it because I care about all people in all situations and have compassion for all situations.. not just the ones I have experienced myself.

If it's working for you.. than it's fine right.. never mind that there are so many that it doesn't work out for.. and this applies to anything in life.. not just the healthcare crisis.

Rhetoric can be said when it is the POPULAR concension. Right now, people like myself, are fighting the ignorant fear based rhetoric that has been ingrained from progress in health care from the Far right and the companies, ie: insurance companies, who care only about and who stand to profit from it. When GREED is a player in anything that an insurance company or the like comes into play, it loses ALL credibility with me.

God help us that the likes of YOu are sitting on that damned panel. God help us if your attitude is what is spriritually leading a flock of people.

Maybe UHC's are not perfect in other countries and a "fix" is needed.. but I don't hear of anyone in those countries SCREAMING for PRIVITIZATION. Actually they are dead set against privitization!!! All they have to look at is our ****ed up system to KNOW not to EVER completely privitize something as important as health care..something that means the difference between LIFE and DEATH. Atleast Europeans in those countries have the capacity to look to help their fellow countryman and look beyond their own noses.

[TristansMommy]

I have a husband that is changing his status to a full blown citizen. I know well about the government and their red tape. I do, however, have faith that if done correctly, smartly and written properly they could turn out something good. Because if YOU had as much experience with a PRIVATE system like I do, YOU would be on the other side of the argument right along with me. Funny.. all the things you all fear ALREADY EXISTS with PRIVATE.. yet you argue for Private because you FEAR all those things will come to pass. DIFFERENCE.. in a UHC or NHC NO ONE WILL BE LEFT WITHOUT PROPER MEDICAL CARE. PEOPLE WILL NOT DIE BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T ACCESS THE CARE THEY NEEDED!! PERIOD!

Don't thank me for something I didn't do. I was merely pointing out how ridiculous your statement was.. you fear something that is already in existance. So we'll need more doctors.. WE ALREADY NEED MORE DOCTORS!! Do you really think suddenly there will be more sick people. NO.. LOL.. Actually there will be more people GETTING REGULAR CARE AND PREVENTATIVE CARE. thereby lessening the BURDEN on ER's and HOSPITALS..
Yes.. more people will get REGULAR check ups. THOSE check ups WILL find problems sooner.. BEFORE it becomes an expensive or deadly problem.

I call everyone else TWITS for buying into the stupid fear mongering that insurance companies have been drilling into peoples heads since REAGAN was a freakin actor on TV!! I know PLENTY about the system from SEVERAL sources, research etc etc etc. I have been very actively researching the topic and educating myself.. I just can't believe how selfish and self centered some people are.. they can't see beyond their own noses and care NOTHING about anyone BUT themselves! If it's fine for them, it's fine.. and there is nothing wrong. Typical arrogant American attitude!!

I call people TWITS for being the robots for the CEO's of these insurance companies who are laughing all the way to their bank while they've brainwashed all of you into thinking that it's better that they exist and rape you of your money while screwing you while they take it. Oh.. if you haven't been screwed yet, you probably will. .Maybe , just maybe you'll be lucky enough to be spared.. but the way things are going these days.. I highly doubt that.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by msconnie73

Yes, your experience is very frustrating as I too detest those automated systems where you have to interact with a computer. I was wondering if you or others who support UHC have ever had to endure waiting lists for procedures such surgery or psychiatrict treatment, etc? What if you needed surgery or cancer treatments and the waiting list under UHC was 17 weeks? If the government is the one controlling health care, how could you bypass that waiting period?

LOL . that waiting nonsense is the rhetoric that those at the insurance companies WANT you to believe..

ELECTIVE and NON LIFE THREATENING procedures do not have "wait lists"

BTW.. wait times exist ,maybe even more so , in a private system. Ever get turned down by an insurance company for something.. first you have to get the approval.. gets denied you have to send in the paperwork to overturn.. denied again and you have to send it to an OUTSIDE panel for review.. LOL>. You don't think waiting happens ?? Waiting happens iwth insurance companies because they are trying to find a way to NOT treat you so that THEY CAN MAKE A PROFIT!!

Oh.. and when you need an appointment with a DR. you think in a private system you can get in right away.. private, OR NHC you have to wait your turn

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

I didn't say that it was definate I was speaking OF AN EXAMPLE of such a thing!!! What that means is that, if a law would be written for a UHC / NHC.. it SHOULD and COULD be framed onsuch a basis

While that may have been your intention to say such things but the reality is, that is NOT what you have written. You have used such statements as "there WILL be" - or "of course, you will be able to". And, "we will set it up just like in the UK" etc.

Your words say what you mean.

[Greatday]

Here you go TM - a totally definite statement that you are unable to back up 100% - and mind you - they are YOUR words for, as you have already admitted / agreed, not everyone will be covered:

DIFFERENCE.. in a UHC or NHC NO ONE WILL BE LEFT WITHOUT PROPER MEDICAL CARE. PEOPLE WILL NOT DIE BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T ACCESS THE CARE THEY NEEDED!! PERIOD!

So - here is your challenge - PROVE your statements above - PROVE there will be no exceptions ever - PROVE THEM

[EnjoyTheSilence]

I have used the British NHS many times. I had complications when I was a kid, all were taken care of at no out of pocket costs to my (single) mother. While Britain's hospitals may not look like 4 star hotels, they are functional, clean and the medical professionals are there to treat you, not to make obscene amounts of money. There's no middle man either (insurance companies) and everything is computerized.

I am so tired of the lies about nationalized health care, and the fearmongering. Don't you see that it's all designed to keep you scared and brainwash you so that you are too afraid to face any kind of reform?

As for the myth that you need "government authorization" for treatment, that's complete and utter BS to the ninth power. When I lived in England and France, I could go to any doctor I liked and they saw me straight away. Hospitals...sure, there are waiting lists, depending on what kind of treatment you need / how "urgent" it is. Obviously, if you need a heart bypass, you won't wait, but if you need a hip replacement, you may have to wait (better than not being able to afford treatment at all). In plain English, you deal with doctors, not the damn government and you don't need government approval for surgery, for example.

Like education, healthcare belongs in the "public" realm. It isn't about expecting handouts from the government, or rewarding laziness. It would drastically lower admin costs, overheads and would all but eliminate greed and profiteering from illness. Think about it; other countries pay a fraction of healthcare costs, compared to Americans. Ask them if they'd swap their nationalized systems for a "for-profit" system and I bet you that even the majority of Conservatives in those countries would say "no".

Ordinary, hard working people have been the cash cow for greedy f**ks in the healthcare industry for far too long. Reform is urgently needed, even if it doesn't mean a ful-blown nationalized healthcare system for the United States.

[EnjoyTheSilence]

TM - keep fighting the good fight. Consider yourself fortunate that you see past the fearmongering and lies and that you actually give a damn about others and can put yourself in their shoes.