Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-08-2009, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
Reputation: 6541

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
And what does that have to do with anything? I agree that at times there is a much smaller, generally insignificant and usually ignored hole at the North pole. So what do you think "no sunlight, no ozone" tells you?
It tells me that the eco-NAZIs have to use lies and deceit to further their agenda and their agenda is not about saving the planet, it is about obtaining power. Which is why nobody believes anything they say.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-08-2009, 08:36 AM
 
1,048 posts, read 2,383,349 times
Reputation: 421
The part I love about the whole thing is that they deny that there was scientific concensus on global cooling in the 70s and claim that there is scientific concensus now, when in fact there was about the same amount of concensus both times.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2009, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,843 posts, read 2,366,950 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Worley View Post
The part I love about the whole thing is that they deny that there was scientific concensus on global cooling in the 70s and claim that there is scientific concensus now, when in fact there was about the same amount of concensus both times.

Post 64 covers that, but hey if you have your own version that's just fine. The other six thousand millions will go on without the US if the country did for some reason choose to follow your example, but they would prefer we provide the leadership and they follow us. If we as a nation continue to allow ourselves to be sandbagged by the selfishness and greed of a few, the option to lead simply won't be there in a few years. China recently announced they plan to own the world automobile market for the new Century. Hell, does it surprise you? We've practically forced it on them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2009, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,062,169 times
Reputation: 13772
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
Honest to God I'm not trying to impugn your character. You are a victim of a National tragedy.
No? You just called me a liar, and now you suggest that view point is due to some tragic form of gullibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
Exactly what do you feel requires debate? I mean the physical universe really doesn't permit global warming not to be true and that's been well known for more than 100 years.
I'm not arguing that an atmosphere with green house gases surrounding a planet, does not retain heat, nor am I trying to argue that CO2 is not a green house gas.

I'm, at the very minimum, trying to suggest that CO2 is not as big a driving force for retaining heat as you might claim, and it is certainly not one that demands we cause economic pain to the people of this country in a vain attempt to lower the earth's temperature.

What is a tragedy, is that without questioning the motives of the AGW alarmists, too many people buy into these scam artists, who purposefully exaggerate the "global climate crisis," and create bogus computer models, in order to frighten the population and talk governments into donating billions of tax dollars to further their agenda.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,062,169 times
Reputation: 13772
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
And what does that have to do with anything? I agree that at times there is a much smaller, generally insignificant and usually ignored hole at the North pole. So what do you think "no sunlight, no ozone" tells you?
I think he is pointing out the alarmists conducted an utter fright campaign about the ozone hole, without even understanding much about it, except that their new satellites detected an ozone hole.

I have seen people use cloak of science as to gain power of other people and corporations, in order to push some agenda. They did it with Dow corning over the silicone breast implants. They destroyed the company, and now the FDA claims the silicone implants are safe, to bad for Dow Corning. But what the hell, they had a consensus of scientists say otherwise in 2001.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2009, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Ohio
668 posts, read 2,182,553 times
Reputation: 832
Im sorry that the Earth is in trouble, but, me, as an individual, cannot do a single thing about it...

Carbon footprint my arse! You have developing Countries that are using Coal fired factories, (like China) and putting out tons of carbon emissions and my little footprint isnt going to make a hill of beans compared to those up and coming Third World Countries who are chugging out fossil fuels like its thier right to kill the World.

What really makes me laugh myself silly, is those big factories that use a lot of fossil fuels and 'buys' carbon emmision slips from other factories who dont use as much... Its like trading green stamps and so, if factory A shuts down for awhile, then Factory B can go hell bent fury in thier production of fossil fuels emmisions and not worry about it, because they have an 'evasion' or a permit to exude all that soot into the air, because Factory A sold them thier carbon emissions "get out of jail for free" slips LOL!

Al Gore... Stop using your planes that emit a whole lot of carbon and reduce the foot print in your own home before you start preaching to the Choir... What a farce that guy is!

Sure, the ice shelves are breaking off in Anartica, they are always breaking off... They are called Glaciers and they have a tendency to drift into shipping lanes and become a nusiance...(just ask the captan of the Titanic!! Poor fella...oh yea, thats in your next life you can do that).

I am hoping for Global Warming, so that I can go fishing in my back yard...Since I live two stone throws from the Ohio River, it would be nice to sit on my back porch or my brother in laws back porch and just fish away my retirement

May the LORD Bless each of you.

I wish you well...

Jesse
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
I think he is pointing out the alarmists conducted an utter fright campaign about the ozone hole, without even understanding much about it, except that their new satellites detected an ozone hole.

I have seen people use cloak of science as to gain power of other people and corporations, in order to push some agenda. They did it with Dow corning over the silicone breast implants. They destroyed the company, and now the FDA claims the silicone implants are safe, to bad for Dow Corning. But what the hell, they had a consensus of scientists say otherwise in 2001.
You are half right, I did use the "Ozone Hole" as an example of the eco-NAZI's fear campaign. I also used it to demonstrate that they are not honest.

The eco-NAZIs intentionally left out the fact that UV radiation is a requirement for the creation of ozone. If there is no sunlight (such as at both poles during the Winter), there is no UV radiation, and therefore no ozone is created. Since these eco-freaks feel the need to deliberately deceive the public to further their agenda, only a complete moron would trust anything they had to say.

Billions were spent by industry during the Carter administration, during an even worse recession than this current one, when we could least afford it, in order to eliminate fluorocarbons from their products, all based on eco-NAZI fear-mongering lies about the "Ozone Hole."

Now they are at it again with AGW, and they expect people to buy their bullsh*t? With our current Affirmative Action President, you can expect a similar ignorant reaction during this recession. Prolonging the recession even longer, just like Carter.

I'm not sure who is dumber, the eco-NAZIs expecting people to believe their intentional deception again, or someone who actually believes their deliberate lies. As the adage goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2009, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,843 posts, read 2,366,950 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
I think he is pointing out the alarmists conducted an utter fright campaign about the ozone hole, without even understanding much about it, except that their new satellites detected an ozone hole.

I have seen people use cloak of science as to gain power of other people and corporations, in order to push some agenda. They did it with Dow corning over the silicone breast implants. They destroyed the company, and now the FDA claims the silicone implants are safe, to bad for Dow Corning. But what the hell, they had a consensus of scientists say otherwise in 2001.

I guess the Ozone hole issue will always baffle me, especially when it pops into discussions about global warming. I had seen reports that seemed to say that the measures taken had been effective. Given the 10 year lag time for chloflourocarbons to rise from the ground to the top of the atmosphere, when the hole at the South Pole hole began shrinking and the North Pole hole closed I thought we had dodged the bullet, and shown that we can reverse the damage we cause in some cases. Skin cancer rates in Patagonia remained elevated, but their public health people said they were getting improvement in that with higher SBF sunscreen, hats, sunglasses, veils and that sort of thing, as well as from a reduction in the size of the Ozone hole. I thought in a few years the problem would be over and I quit paying attention. A few years ago I learned the problem is not solved, and although the hole shrunk initially, it is still of formidable size, with the annual fluctuations. NASA and NOAH devote a lot of resources to monitoring it. I'll attach a few links.

If someone has told you this, it is dreadfully wrong.

Quote:
the alarmists conducted an utter fright campaign about the ozone hole, without even understanding much about it, except that their new satellites detected an ozone hole.
Most of our knowledge of the Ozone Layer of the atmosphere comes from radio and radar which we've had since WWII. Satellites have been in use since the 1950's, and the Ozone Layer of the atmosphere has been specifically monitored since 1962. When the Ozone hole opened in the 1979 it was noticed by everyone immediately and its been closely monitored ever since. It was not discovered because satellites were new, because they were not new when it happened. The chemistry involved is pretty well know by now, and has been confirmed by a variety of means. While its not a global warming issue, its certainly not a case of the scientists making a mistake or alarmists conducting an "utter fright campaign" We've known since the 1950's that without the Ozone Layer of the atmosphere life could not exist on earth. As with global warming, the only thing that's changed since then is that the certainty of our knowledge has increased. I hope this helps.

NASA - Ozone Resource Page

NASA - NASA and NOAA Announce Ozone Hole is a Double Record Breaker

ESRL News: 2008 Sees Fifth Largest Ozone Hole

Climate Prediction Center - Stratosphere: Polar Stratosphere and Ozone Depletion

Climate Prediction Center - Stratosphere: Polar Stratosphere and Ozone Depletion

NOAA Stratospheric Ozone Webpage

Science - The Antarctic Ozone Hole
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2009, 04:16 PM
 
24,373 posts, read 22,986,934 times
Reputation: 14951
Obama and his "pollution solution" will cloud the skies and blot out the suns rays. He'll be known as the Chem trail president.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2009, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,404,380 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatchance2005 View Post
I guess the Ozone hole issue will always baffle me, especially when it pops into discussions about global warming. I had seen reports that seemed to say that the measures taken had been effective. Given the 10 year lag time for chloflourocarbons to rise from the ground to the top of the atmosphere, when the hole at the South Pole hole began shrinking and the North Pole hole closed I thought we had dodged the bullet, and shown that we can reverse the damage we cause in some cases. Skin cancer rates in Patagonia remained elevated, but their public health people said they were getting improvement in that with higher SBF sunscreen, hats, sunglasses, veils and that sort of thing, as well as from a reduction in the size of the Ozone hole. I thought in a few years the problem would be over and I quit paying attention. A few years ago I learned the problem is not solved, and although the hole shrunk initially, it is still of formidable size, with the annual fluctuations. NASA and NOAH devote a lot of resources to monitoring it. I'll attach a few links.

If someone has told you this, it is dreadfully wrong.



Most of our knowledge of the Ozone Layer of the atmosphere comes from radio and radar which we've had since WWII. Satellites have been in use since the 1950's, and the Ozone Layer of the atmosphere has been specifically monitored since 1962. When the Ozone hole opened in the 1979 it was noticed by everyone immediately and its been closely monitored ever since. It was not discovered because satellites were new, because they were not new when it happened. The chemistry involved is pretty well know by now, and has been confirmed by a variety of means. While its not a global warming issue, its certainly not a case of the scientists making a mistake or alarmists conducting an "utter fright campaign" We've known since the 1950's that without the Ozone Layer of the atmosphere life could not exist on earth. As with global warming, the only thing that's changed since then is that the certainty of our knowledge has increased. I hope this helps.

NASA - Ozone Resource Page

NASA - NASA and NOAA Announce Ozone Hole is a Double Record Breaker

ESRL News: 2008 Sees Fifth Largest Ozone Hole

Climate Prediction Center - Stratosphere: Polar Stratosphere and Ozone Depletion

Climate Prediction Center - Stratosphere: Polar Stratosphere and Ozone Depletion

NOAA Stratospheric Ozone Webpage

Science - The Antarctic Ozone Hole
This is a classic case of eco-NAZI fear-mongering. Nowhere does the poster mention anything about how ozone is created, or why there are ozone holes over both poles during the winter. In fact, the poster could not resist blaming humans for this naturally occurring phenomena:

Quote:
I had seen reports that seemed to say that the measures taken had been effective. Given the 10 year lag time for chloflourocarbons to rise from the ground to the top of the atmosphere, when the hole at the South Pole hole began shrinking and the North Pole hole closed I thought we had dodged the bullet, and shown that we can reverse the damage we cause in some cases.
Either the poster didn't bother reading any of the links he provided, or the poster simply doesn't care to deal with reality and would just rather blame humans. Another fine example of deliberate deception and eco-NAZI fear-mongering.

Fluorocarbons are not the only chemical capable of depleting ozone. Water vapor also depletes ozone. NASA is particularly aware of this fact, having almost destroyed the ozone layer when they launched a Saturn V rocket in 1972 for another lunar landing with Apollo 16.

It is on the ignorance of the public and fear that these eco-NAZIs feed on. Once again, it has nothing to do with "saving the planet", and everything to do with obtaining power and control.

If these eco-NAZIs deliberately lie to us about the "Ozone Hole", what makes anyone think they are telling the truth about AGW?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:02 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top