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I guess that's one of the differences in believing in God or not. I happen to be a Christian, I believe that life is precious, and yes, I do believe that conception is a gift. I am truly amazed that any human could consider it otherwise.
I think the real sticking point is when you consider life to begin. Some people consider it the moment of conception. Some consider it when the baby is born. Some consider it some point in between.
I think you can disagree about what point life begins and still believe in God.
You're right, every woman should be enraged that if she becomes unintentionally pregnant, that pro-life people suddenly lose focus on her life, on her issues and concerns, and focus solely on the fetus she is carrying. It may, indeed, be a gift, but it is a gift that is also a burden. And women have to consider that burden. They have to consider the health risks that are part of pregnancy for every women, and the risks that are particular to their own bodies. They have to consider the financial costs pregnancy and subsequent child-rearing will incur. They have to consider the impact pregnancy and motherhood will have on their lives. You, in your pro-life position, can see this from the vantage point of moral superiority as a purely right versus wrong issue. She, on the other hand, is the one who will be visiting doctors. She is the one who will have to buy an entire new wardrobe. She is the one who will be monitoring her blood pressure and heart rate, her blood sugar and water retention. She is the one who worries about keeping her job, and how much insurance will cover. She is the one who has to sit down and tell her husband or boyfriend about this unwanted pregnancy, and she might also have to face disappointed parents and disapproving school authorities. You see it from the vantage point of never having to get your hands dirty, she's sees it from the vantage point that her entire life is about to be altered.
She's not ignorant or unappreciative of the fact that she is carrying a potential life. She's just aware that it's a huge responsibility, and that her life is going to change in every possible way. She's not thinking just about the fetus, she's thinking about herself. It may seem selfish to you that she is considering herself and her future, but it's not like you're thinking about it when your primary concern isn't her at all, but the unborn baby. And that it is the unborn baby and not the woman who becomes the focus of the pro-life movement is exactly why pro-life people can be characterized as seeing the woman as a fetal container. Because seeing her as more raises questions as to why she doesn't want the baby. If pro-lifers were really about pro-life, they would work more to address the issues that make women reluctant to go through a pregnancy, rather than blaming the women.
Intelligent read. I give you props for logical concern. However, all that can be taken from that is the utter lack of personal responsibility. You're basically saying that HE AND SHE (it takes two) should not have thought of those things before commencing to act carelessly. I have yet to see a statistic that purports the failure of birth control to be a leading cause of pregnancy. There's not a man or woman on earth that can say they didn't know pregnancy was a possibility when they had sex. You and your guy made the baby, now stand up for your responsibility. Your reasoning suggests that we should all act carelessly, and then apologize for it later. I happen to be on the pro-personal responsibility side of things.
Intelligent read. I give you props for logical concern. However, all that can be taken from that is the utter lack of personal responsibility. You're basically saying that HE AND SHE (it takes two) should not have thought of those things before commencing to act carelessly. I have yet to see a statistic that purports the failure of birth control to be a leading cause of pregnancy. There's not a man or woman on earth can say they didn't know pregnancy was a possibility when they had sex. You and your guy made the baby, now stand up for your responsibility. Your reasoning suggests that we should all act carelessly, and then apologize for it later. I happen to be on the pro-personal responsibility side of things.
But what if you are on birth control? What if you happen to be the 1 percent?
I have always been anti-abortion except in instances of rape, incest, etc. There has to be a common sense approach to it.
So murder of an unborn child is ok sometimes? Why should the child pay for the circumstances of its conception. Murder is murder, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC
And yes, I believe every woman should be enraged that "fetal container" would be used to describe a human that has been given the gift of conception. It's that simple.
So why would you allow a woman who has been raped to reject "the gift of conception" through abortion. Shouldn't she just decontextualize the manner of conception and enjoy the gift that god gave her? Talk about a wonderful silver lining, right?
Intelligent read. I give you props for logical concern. However, all that can be taken from that is the utter lack of personal responsibility. You're basically saying that HE AND SHE (it takes two) should not have thought of those things before commencing to act carelessly. I have yet to see a statistic that purports the failure of birth control to be a leading cause of pregnancy. There's not a man or woman on earth that can say they didn't know pregnancy was a possibility when they had sex. You and your guy made the baby, now stand up for your responsibility. Your reasoning suggests that we should all act carelessly, and then apologize for it later. I happen to be on the pro-personal responsibility side of things.
So basically, you want to punish people for being irresponsible. With a baby.
How exactly is it more responsible to bring a baby into this world that you can't take care of?
Taking responsibility means making a decision. Deciding to have an abortion is making a decision, taking responsibility. It's just not your own personal definition of responsibility, which as we all know is strictly having the baby, no ifs ands or buts.
So basically, you want to punish people for being irresponsible. With a baby.
How exactly is it more responsible to bring a baby into this world that you can't take care of?
Precisely my point. No personal responsibility. I don't buy houses that I can't afford. I don't have sex without being capable of understanding my role and responsibility that may come with being a father, should that occur.
Precisely my point. No personal responsibility. I don't buy houses that I can't afford. I don't have sex without being capable of understanding my role and responsibility that may come with being a father, should that occur.
Good for you! It's pretty easy considering you can never get pregnant.
Don't push your beliefs on others. A woman having an abortion does not affect you in any way, shape or form.
Again, how is it more responsible to have a baby you don't want or can't afford, rather than get an abortion?
This is my last post to this thread. I still stand by my comments that:
1) EVERY female should be enraged that she would be referred to as a "fetal container", no matter if the accuser is pro-life or pro-choice. Absolutely no dignity in that.
2) Personal responsibility should trump political policy anyday. If you make the baby by your own carelessness, you should stand up to your responsibility as parents.
This is my last post to this thread. I still stand by my comments that:
1) EVERY female should be enraged that she would be referred to as a "fetal container". Absolutely no dignity in that.
2) Personal responsibility should trump political policy anyday. If you make the baby by your own carelessness, you should stand up to your responsibility as parents.
Adios.
1) I'm glad that you, as a man, tell me what I should and should not be "enraged" about.
2) There are many, many, situations where abortion is the more responsible option, but you seem to think irresponsible people should be punished with babies.
Regardless, I still think you just read the "shocker of a headline" without bothering to read it in full context, hence you thinking we should be outraged... because most women would agree that your status has been reduced from "human" to "fetal container" if you are forced to birth. But of course, you wouldn't understand that, because it could never happen to you.
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