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I've done a lot of research on homosexuality and the Bible as well. There are many good books on the topic and I've read a couple of them, as well as searched for information sources on the net.
I've come to the conclusion that if the verses currently used to condemn homosexuality are read in context and in the original languages (Hebrew and Koine Greek), not the more recent English translations, then there is NO blanket condemnation of homosexuality.
I've found the vast majority of people are not aware of things like:
the word "homosexual" wasn't even used in an English translation (1 Cor 6) until 1948?
1 Cor 6 used to be used to condemn masturbators not homosexuals.
The early Church fathers never referred to 1 Cor 6 when talking about homosexuality, because it wasn't seen as having anything to do with homosexuality at that time.
Certain practices are mentioned: like male temple prostitution, ritual pagan sex worship of fertility gods in temples, male rape, male sex slaves etc, but not homosexuality in general or committed homosexual relationships.
This Uniting Church site looks at what different biblical scholars have to say about the interpretations and translations of the verses currently used against homosexuality. It is well referenced with a bibliography for further reading:
Considering the often cited biblical texts on homosexuality. (http://fou.uniting.com.au/texts.html - broken link)
If you have anything you'd recommend about interpretation of verses on the topic, I'd be happy to read it.
Romans 1 (New International Version)
Romans 1
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
It's pretty clear here. Women sleeping with women and men sleeping with men are shameful, perverse, and unnatural and worthy of a penalty.
Not that you would accept what is so plainly written. The neat thing is people like to get caught up on certain words not being in the Bible as if the idea doesn't exist. You'd be challenged to find a significant number of Christians who don't accept the idea of the Trinity yet the word appears nowhere in the Bible.
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
It's pretty clear here. Women sleeping with women and men sleeping with men are shameful, perverse, and unnatural and worthy of a penalty.
Not that you would accept what is so plainly written. The neat thing is people like to get caught up on certain words not being in the Bible as if the idea doesn't exist. You'd be challenged to find a significant number of Christians who don't accept the idea of the Trinity yet the word appears nowhere in the Bible.
Nothing to do with homosexuality. These were heterosexuals who had been converted to Christianity then reverted back to pagan worship. I suggest you do a little research. If you know anything about the culture at the time, this pagan worship of fertility gods often included sex orgies in pagan temples, where people who were "normally" heterosexual would have sex with those of both sexes. Drugs were often used to send them into a sexual frenzy.
In 1 Romans, the main issue that Paul had a problem with, was that they had rejected "God" and reverted back to worshipping pagan gods. That's plain to see if you read all of 1 Romans in context.
The concept of the Trinity was a later addition to doctrine by the early church fathers, but you are right in that there is no mention of the word Trinity in the Bible.
Dark Obsession is a personal story about the inexorable grip of homosexual lust, the betrayal of wife and family, and ultimately the tragedy of a life cut short. Interwoven into the story is the discussion of homosexuality from a biblical and theological perspective.
Yes, and you've repeated it many times. Many, many times.
If you understood how HIV is transmitted, then you'd understand one of the reasons why HIV is so prevalent among men who have sex with men.
I'm quite familiar with how it's transmitted that's why the disease is rare among lesbians. But that's not the point.
AIDS is common knowledge in the gay community. I doubt there's a gay site that doesn't mention it. Yet gays feel compelled to ignore what's common sense to protect themselves and thus are the primary reason AIDS is still a big deal in the US. There is obviously a sexual behavioral issue among gay men yet you want to act as though they are perfectly normal. As long as you keep trying propagandize people here that gays are normal, I will continue to point out that they are not.
Quote:
Did you know that heterosexuals are almost 100% responsible for the millions of fetuses that are aborted every year in this country?
Yep, and they're POSs for it. I don't deny it.
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It doesn't take much to see through the statistics and realize how they can be used as propaganda, much as you like to do.
Yeah, propaganda. You want to present gays as normal and I want to show what their behavior is doing to our country. Call me a propagandist all you want. I couldn't care less. The facts speak for themselves.
That's the major problem with the Bible is the 2000 years of interpretations meant to serve someone's personal interests. Thanks in large part to the Catholic Church for messing it up so bad over the last several hundred years.
Then you don't know what you're talking about. You believe that the Bible is simply a translation of a translation of a translation. You ought to educate yourself on how modern interpretations use Dea Sea Scrolls and scientific means to provide accurate interpretations.
Nothing to do with homosexuality. These were heterosexuals who had been converted to Christianity then reverted back to pagan worship. I suggest you do a little research. If you know anything about the culture at the time, this pagan worship of fertility gods often included sex orgies in pagan temples, where people who were "normally" heterosexual would have sex with those of both sexes. Drugs were often used to send them into a sexual frenzy.
In 1 Romans, the main issue that Paul had a problem with, was that they had rejected "God" and reverted back to worshipping pagan gods. That's plain to see if you read all of 1 Romans in context.
The concept of the Trinity was a later addition to doctrine by the early church fathers, but you are right in that there is no mention of the word Trinity in the Bible.
And yet you miss the point. It's abundantly clear that they were PUNISHED with shameful lusts (among many descriptors). And what were those shameful lusts? Homosexuality.
Curious too. Where did you get your information? Pro-gay website by chance?
Spin away but it's still obvious that homosexuality is anything but a positive trait.
You keep suggesting that I read the "book" but so far you haven't told us what the "book" is. So...is this it?
Saw it and ignored it. You've been informed it wasn't the source yet you want to keep claiming it is. Obviously no matter what I say you'll dismiss and accuse me of using sources I've never used but hey that's your agenda and you're entitled to it just as I am entitled to ignore you on the topic since you been too lazy to even look for Freund's writings like I've told you to do more than once.
Then you don't know what you're talking about. You believe that the Bible is simply a translation of a translation of a translation. You ought to educate yourself on how modern interpretations use Dea Sea Scrolls and scientific means to provide accurate interpretations.
There were no manuscripts from the New Testament found in the Dead Sea scrolls- and nothing about Jesus.
Perhaps you need to read a few books by Biblical scholars, historians and language experts who study the bible from an historical-critical perspective.
And yet you miss the point. It's abundantly clear that they were PUNISHED with shameful lusts (among many descriptors). And what were those shameful lusts? Homosexuality.
Curious too. Where did you get your information? Pro-gay website by chance?
Spin away but it's still obvious that homosexuality is anything but a positive trait.
Nope. Homosexuality is NOT just heterosexuals having sex with the same sex. Otherwise all those straight men in prisons who rape the new meat to dominate and humilate them would be homosexual for example, and clearly they are not.
My information? From reading books by Biblical scholars and from reading books and studies about homosexuality by experts in the field.
Where did your get yours? From Sunday school tracts? The ones with big pictures?
Saw it and ignored it. You've been informed it wasn't the source yet you want to keep claiming it is. Obviously no matter what I say you'll dismiss and accuse me of using sources I've never used but hey that's your agenda and you're entitled to it just as I am entitled to ignore you on the topic since you been too lazy to even look for Freund's writings like I've told you to do more than once.
I've looked at the studies by Freund that were cited. I've looked up his history and what he had to say about homosexuality - and what he concludes is NOT what you claimed.
So tell us your SOURCE then?
I've asked you repeatedly, yet you ignore it. The quotes you made about pedophilia were "word for word" from an article by Timothy Dailey which was also incorporated into that book he wrote.
Why are you so reluctant to give your source? What is the title of the book are you talking about? How do you expect people to take anything you say seriously when you refuse to give your sources for such bold claims? Do you have something to hide?
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