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Also, where were you when Bush/Cheney was shredding the Constitution and our system of government?
Open your eyes, pal.
My eyes are WIDE OPEN, which is why I have such distaste for what I see this administration and the Democrats in Congress doing to our country, dismantling it bit by bit. Apparently you have no such cognizance of what they are doing to destroy the very foundations of our freedom.
Whatever Bush/Cheney may have done (and I think there is scant evidence that they did anything at all outside the Constitution and rule of law), pales in comparison to what Obama is attempting to do, and has already done in just 100 days.
Release of these memos, and talk of prosecuting government officials, especially in view of the fact that every damn one of these Democrats signed off on these interrogation techniques (they were all briefed in advance) does irreparable harm to the United States. One surely must ask of this President:
"Mr. President: Are you for us (the United States) or against us?"
I know what the answer is. Do you?
He is chumminess and photo ops, smiling broadly, with dictators around the world who will use the photos, etc. of his meetings with them as propaganda to silence and intimidate their opposition, and thereby making the fight for freedom of oppressed people around the world much more difficult, is nothing short of disgusting. He is showing us who he really is, and it is not a person that has any love for America.
Obama has reduced America to a banana republic; Chicago politics exported to Washington D.C. Corupt as they come, dictatorial, and power hungry. He is in love with himself only. He sees himself as "The One".
Finally, I am not your "pal". And the link you provided which you claim proves we got information without these techniques, is a link to another C-D Forum, with a link to the New York Times (no less...of course we know how credible the NY Times is) Log in. I'm sure that story is "meaty".
Last edited by nononsenseguy; 04-24-2009 at 05:06 PM..
For starters, most people confuse Republicans with Conservatives and the two are not mutually exclusive. Many who claim the title conservative wouldn't know actual traditional conservatism if it bit them on the nose. Most of what Andrew is describing are contemporary Republicans, not necessarily conservatives.
My eyes are WIDE OPEN, which is why I have such distaste for what I see this administration and the Democrats in Congress doing to our country, dismantling it bit by bit. Apparently you have no such cognizance of what they are doing to destroy the very foundations of our freedom.
Whatever Bush/Cheney may have done (and I think there is scant evidence that they did anything at all outside the Constitution and rule of law), pales in comparison to what Obama is attempting to do, and has already done in just 100 days.
Release of these memos, and talk of prosecuting government officials, especially in view of the fact that every damn one of these Democrats signed off on these interrogation techniques (they were all briefed in advance) does irreparable harm to the United States. One surely must ask of this President:
"Mr. President: Are you for us (the United States) or against us?"
I know what the answer is. Do you?
He is chumminess and photo ops, smiling broadly, with dictators around the world who will use the photos, etc. of his meetings with them as propaganda to silence and intimidate their opposition, and thereby making the fight for freedom of oppressed people around the world much more difficult, is nothing short of disgusting. He is showing us who he really is, and it is not a person that has any love for America.
Obama has reduced America to a banana republic; Chicago politics exported to Washington D.C. Corupt as they come, dictatorial, and power hungry. He is in love with himself only. He sees himself as "The One".
Finally, I am not your "pal". And the link you provided which you claim proves we got information without these techniques, is a link to another C-D Forum, with a link to the New York Times (no less...of course we know how credible the NY Times is) Log in. I'm sure that story is "meaty".
I know what Obama's answer would be as well. Excellent post, very well said. I tried to Rep. you, but I have to spread it around first.
We captured some AQ. The white house decided we needed to aggressively interogate them. They went to the justice department to ask for guidlines & interpretation of what was allowable under the law. Waterboarding, Sleep Depravation and stress positions were all found to be w/ in bounds. Congress - both parties - were breifed on the plan & those tactics were then used. I do not have a problem with any of it.
To those who cite past uses of waterboarding resulting in convictions- Army's often do not allow units in the feild to undertake certain actions that are allowed by trained specailists. To give an analogy no combat commander would be allowed to execute a soldier he found murdering civillians, but that soldier could later be executed by a firing squad. Would the firing squad be guilty of murder? No, they were doing what they were trained and authourized to do.
As for the convictions of Japanese soldiers who waterboarded POW's, POW's are entitled to certain protections under the geneva conventions. Terrorists are not. And I would be willing to bet most of those japanese who were tried engaged in other mistreatments as well, not just waterboarding.
War is a bloody, brutal, terrible thing where brutal, nasty and terrible things are done. That's why it is hell. To expect different is naive.
This is your logic... which makes no sense to me. You believe what occured is not torture so of course you are not supporting torture... even though the United States has called the use of waterboarding by other countries torture... even though we use these techniques on our military so they can survive what we deemed torture... even though they went to the extraordinary step of getting opinions from the attorney general to not define this as torture. Do you really think that even the people who did this did not believe it to be torture? Of course they did... and they went out to CYA themselves by having some lawyers draft up memos.
And since when did we depend on former heads of the CIA to calibrate our moral compass? If not for laws, all of these men would torture indiscriminately... that is the nature of man not bound by laws. We see it in other countries and we saw it here... the culture that created the torture memos led to Abu Ghraib, led to the US shipping off prisoners to places like Egypt, Syria and Pakistan so they can torture them even more recklessly... we just can't deny what this government did in our name.
No matter what your opinion, it does harm to the United States to go around apologizing to the world at large for what we may or may not have done (subject to opinion). Obama was dead wrong to release this information, especially when we have American citizens in captivity (most recently, the reporter being held in Iran. She will most likely be killed, and Obama bears much responsibility for her fate. Is he doing anything to secure her release? No, he is not.).
Wow, all this talk of people being tortured and the only thing you can contribute is this? Seems you're more interested in NOT caring about this issue and more interested in pissing people off. Typical conservative. Insults without substance, solutions without morals.
Ow get a life, it was all in good humor. You must be a uptight liberal.
General Black Jack Pershing put down a rebellion by soaking the bullets in pigs blood and burying any bodies with parts of pigs.
If my son's or daughters life is saved by making a captured prisoner talk then carry on. GET the job done as soon as possible. The world is not a safe and sane place as it was in my fathers time.
General Black Jack Pershing put down a rebellion by soaking the bullets in pigs blood and burying any bodies with parts of pigs.
That would have been spot-on - why do you suppose we didn't do it?
Too intelligent?
Or, would we have offended our "allies"?
How do you think Black Jack would get the truth out of Cheney?
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I tried to Rep. you, but I have to spread it around first.
We do not believe it is torture
