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Old 04-30-2009, 01:17 AM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,853,863 times
Reputation: 596

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This liberal vs. conservative debating that Americans have been steered into is ridiculous.

Liberal and conservative Americans really are similar people and should just UNITE instead of letting the media work them up into a frenzy against each other. The differences between a liberal and conservative American are really very minor. We are all Americans, and as Americans we are very much the same people.

The media and our politicians are creating dramas and fiascos to make the American people take sides and fight an imaginary battle of left vs. right. This is not the battle we should be fighting. There are bigger things that we should UNITE and solve together. Like the fact that our politicians are all corrupt, corporations are controlling all our politicans, our economy is crashing, our rights are slowly being taken away.

It is supposed to be the people of the USA united. Making the government work for us. It has turned into the government controlling us, and watch as we fight amongst ourselves like fish in a barrel.

When I see these liberal vs. conservative debates, I think to myself, what a waste of energy. I think it is a bit ignorant and juvenile. It shows a failure to see the bigger picture to me.

If the people of America united. Our power would be unstoppable and we would be able to regain control.

Last edited by FunkyMonk; 04-30-2009 at 01:36 AM..

 
Old 04-30-2009, 02:02 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,536,502 times
Reputation: 18436
That's because Conservatives absolutely have no credibility, no record of success, no answers, don't know the questions, don't know how to pick people to be president or vice-president, don't understand other cultures, underestimate people they don't know, don't know how to bridge the gap, have no clue on foreign policy, health care reform, education reform, or tax reform, have absolutely no idea how to run an economy, not a clue on how to fight crime, have no success in any drug war, have absolutely no answers in how to stop gang violence, no clue on civil rights, absolutely no understanding of the woman's right to choose, have no respect for American workers, cater to the low class, the uneducated, the narrow-minded, and the klan, have no interest in the infrastructure, believe in that farcical ineffective trickle-down economic theory, promote the good ol boy network of incompetents, blindly support untalented people as leaders and politicians, voted for the worst man to reside in the oval office in history, voted for this village idiot twice, thought podunk Palin was suitable enough to be a heartbeat away from running this country after the village idiot, are racially divisive, supported by the klan, supported by some of the most narrow-minded people in this country, don't support technological research, oppose stem-cell, have no interest in fighting cancer or other deadly diseases, no interest in biotechnological research, no interest in biomedical research, prefer to go to Mars rather to the nation's inner cities, prefer to rebuild Iraq rather than the nation's inner cities, falsely believe that every other country wants to be like us, pompous enough to think that lying to justify war is acceptable behavior, don't know how to fight wars, have no clue on effective military strategy, never found Bin Laden, never found WMDs, think that simply saying "no new taxes" is enough to run the economy, prefer h1b over qualified Americans, prefer outsourcing, prefer profits over loyalty, and prefer to pick their noses in unregulated bliss. 8 years they had and we learned plenty about them.

Yes, I would say that "debating" these people is quite lame.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 02:09 AM
 
Location: Winnetka, IL & Rolling Hills, CA
1,273 posts, read 3,937,339 times
Reputation: 588
I thought Obama was endorsed by the KKK, just as every Democratic Presidential candidate has been?
 
Old 04-30-2009, 02:10 AM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,853,863 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
That's because Conservatives absolutely have no credibility, no record of success, no answers, don't know the questions, don't know how to pick people to be president or vice-president, don't understand other cultures, underestimate people they don't know, don't know how to bridge the gap, have no clue on foreign policy, health care reform, education reform, or tax reform, have absolutely no idea how to run an economy, not a clue on how to fight crime, have no success in any drug war, have absolutely no answers in how to stop gang violence, no clue on civil rights, absolutely no understanding of the woman's right to choose, have no respect for American workers, cater to the low class, the uneducated, the narrow-minded, and the klan, have no interest in the infrastructure, believe in that farcical ineffective trickle-down economic theory, promote the good ol boy network of incompetents, blindly support untalented people as leaders and politicians, voted for the worst man to reside in the oval office in history, voted for this village idiot twice, thought podunk Palin was suitable enough to be a heartbeat away from running this country after the village idiot, are racially divisive, supported by the klan, supported by some of the most narrow-minded people in this country, don't support technological research, oppose stem-cell, have no interest in fighting cancer or other deadly diseases, no interest in biotechnological research, no interest in biomedical research, prefer to go to Mars rather to the nation's inner cities, prefer to rebuild Iraq rather than the nation's inner cities, falsely believe that every other country wants to be like us, pompous enough to think that lying to justify war is acceptable behavior, don't know how to fight wars, have no clue on effective military strategy, never found Bin Laden, never found WMDs, think that simply saying "no new taxes" is enough to run the economy, prefer h1b over qualified Americans, prefer outsourcing, prefer profits over loyalty, and prefer to pick their noses in unregulated bliss. 8 years they had and we learned plenty about them.

Yes, I would say that "debating" these people is quite lame.
I agree with you. But I also think that many liberals in America are just as bad. Many are just as ignorant, and have an equally narrow-minded outlook. Many liberals in America are now just being sheep to Obama, just like the conservative were sheep to Bush.

The most intelligent people i've ever met have usually seen beyond this level and gone deeper.

And I have met both liberals, and conservatives who are very smart and very wise.

I do not even know what side I am on anymore. I think I am neither a liberal or a conservative. I just don't think the difference is important. There is too much grey area and too much diversity within these categories for them to be meaningful.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Winnetka, IL & Rolling Hills, CA
1,273 posts, read 3,937,339 times
Reputation: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyMonk View Post
I agree with you. But I also think that many liberals in America are just as bad. Many are just as ignorant, and have an equally narrow-minded outlook. Many liberals in America are now just being sheep to Obama, just like the conservative were sheep to Bush.

The most intelligent people i've ever met have usually seen beyond this level and gone deeper.

And I have met both liberals, and conservatives who are very smart and very wise.

I do not even know what side I am on anymore. I think I am neither a liberal or a conservative. I just don't think the difference is important. There is too much grey area and too much diversity within these categories for them to be meaningful.
Conservatives were hardly sheep to George W. Bush. Republican approval slipped below 60% toward the end of his presidency.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 02:23 AM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,853,863 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by US-Traveller View Post
Conservatives were hardly sheep to George W. Bush. Republican approval slipped below 60% toward the end of his presidency.
A smart person would have never supported Bush in the first place if they knew who we was and what he was all about. But people saw "Republican" in front of Bushs name and that's all it took for them to support him.

GW had that Republican status, so Republican people supported him fiercely until about 2008. back in 2002 to 2006, Bush could do any stupid thing and the Republican people would have backed him up. Just look at the moronic Bush speeches, how did people support that?

I still remember 2003, watching all these "conservative" people supporting the war in Iraq and the ridulous way they claimed patriotism by supporting the war. It was a disgusting display of gullibility. They were suckered into it by their emotions being played. The need for revenge after 911, we were used.

But now, it seems that the same thing is happening with Obama. The "liberals" seem to support him like he is the king, just because he claimed to have a liberal agenda. I see the same ignorance in liberals now that I saw in conservatives in 2003. I see the same blind following. The same naive and ignorant trust.

Look beyond the politicians. Look deeper. Follow the money trail.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 02:34 AM
 
Location: OUTTA SIGHT!
3,023 posts, read 2,872,210 times
Reputation: 1899
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyMonk View Post
This liberal vs. conservative debating that Americans have been steered into is ridiculous.

Liberal and conservative Americans really are similar people and should just UNITE instead of letting the media work them up into a frenzy against each other. The differences between a liberal and conservative American are really very minor. We are all Americans, and as Americans we are very much the same people.

The media and our politicians are creating dramas and fiascos to make the American people take sides and fight an imaginary battle of left vs. right. This is not the battle we should be fighting. There are bigger things that we should UNITE and solve together. Like the fact that our politicians are all corrupt, corporations are controlling all our politicans, our economy is crashing, our rights are slowly being taken away.

It is supposed to be the people of the USA united. Making the government work for us. It has turned into the government controlling us, and watch as we fight amongst ourselves like fish in a barrel.

When I see these liberal vs. conservative debates, I think to myself, what a waste of energy. I think it is a bit ignorant and juvenile. It shows a failure to see the bigger picture to me.

If the people of America united. Our power would be unstoppable and we would be able to regain control.

The fact is that Americans are divided when it comes to key issues.

There are fundamental concepts that separate self professed conservatives from progressives.

We can be divided into more than two groups but usually we fall into the old Left / Right dichotomy out of convenience and because it's more effective than the alternatives.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Harrisonville
1,831 posts, read 2,115,393 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyMonk View Post
This liberal vs. conservative debating that Americans have been steered into is ridiculous.

Liberal and conservative Americans really are similar people and should just UNITE instead of letting the media work them up into a frenzy against each other. The differences between a liberal and conservative American are really very minor. We are all Americans, and as Americans we are very much the same people.

The media and our politicians are creating dramas and fiascos to make the American people take sides and fight an imaginary battle of left vs. right. This is not the battle we should be fighting. There are bigger things that we should UNITE and solve together. Like the fact that our politicians are all corrupt, corporations are controlling all our politicans, our economy is crashing, our rights are slowly being taken away.

It is supposed to be the people of the USA united. Making the government work for us. It has turned into the government controlling us, and watch as we fight amongst ourselves like fish in a barrel.

When I see these liberal vs. conservative debates, I think to myself, what a waste of energy. I think it is a bit ignorant and juvenile. It shows a failure to see the bigger picture to me.

If the people of America united. Our power would be unstoppable and we would be able to regain control.

I heard something recently on this subject I thought was really interesting. The old fogies on here know it didn't used to be this way. There were differences of course, but not like it is now. Everything has a Right/Left spin even if it is an incredible stretch to find one.

I heard an interview where a Media Analyst was asked this question (Why the change? What happened?). His answer was really interesting. He said "We've always had political discussion shows, where the news would be discussed. The main thing about those shows was they were boring. Few people watched them. Along somewhere in the late 1970's or early 1980's somebody figured out that the news was more interesting if people argued about it rather than discussing it". They started putting short segments at the end of the news programs where people would argue back and forth based on the R/L features of a story, or creating them. Sure enough, those attracted a bigger market share and quickly developed into stand-alone shows. I remember the original SNL cast had a recurring skit satirizing one of the first of those shows ("Jane, you ignorant ****!")

Now they've pretty much taken over, and even the "regular" news is often presented mainly from one viewpoint or the other. I think there are several problems with that. One, is it has led more and more to "cookie cutter Republicans" and "cookie cutter Democrats". The talk show guys have a playlist of opinions on every topic, "yes" on this one, "no" on that one. They have to make them opposite for every issue with each Party given as "yes" or a "no", a "for" or "against"-- even when real differences don't exist. So it's no longer "legitimate" for a politician or a voter to be a social Liberal and a fiscal Conservative, or to be a fiscal and social Conservative who is liberal on the environment.

We lost a great deal when that happened. Branding anyone who doesn't adhere to the "playlist" a political traitor is insane. This is what gave the two party system strength and made bipartisanship work. If there was an issue to be hammered out you could always find enough people from each party to assemble a bipartisan committee because they all shared a few common views on that one topic. It's almost impossible now. People are afraid to step out of line, afraid of what the talk shows and their following will do to them. So the Medium has become the Message. The overall effect is sinister, as we a People once noted for our tolerance have become a people noted for our intolerance. That undercuts our ability to work together, which is the basis for almost all of our achievements as a Nation. Is there really any point for a Republican to be against clean water just because the Democrats are for it and we absolutely have to be different from them! The only real legitimate difference is how we are going to assure clean water and how we are going to pay for it. Replacing those issues with "for" and "against" is imbecilic! Yet that is what the talking heads have accomplished.

I think this has happened in America for the same reasons that we are such avid sports fans: our competitive spirit, team identification, and love of gamesmanship. We need not let this happen, but if we want to change it we have to address it at the source. What we have now is vast segments of the population lipsynching the rhetoric of people trained in small-market broadcasting masquerading as political analysts. Before the "argue about the news" thing, a political analyst was someone like a former State Department official. We still have those, but they're just window dressing, called in for a 30 second sound byte.

This is terribly important because applying a "We/They" standard to everything (when only a few things naturally have one) quickly leads to "We are good; They are bad". In that environment only bigotry, hatred despotism and oppression are possible.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 08:29 AM
 
230 posts, read 636,741 times
Reputation: 190
Most people have no clue that the words are now used as epithets and few have any knowledge about the intracacies and various strains of both philosophies. A big problem is that both of these political philosophies have been hijacked by the lowest common denominator crowds in each camp. Modern day liberalism and conservatism have both devolved into something ugly. Meanwhile the US and Western Civilization in general are in what looks to me like a death spiral, and still we're reduced to conducting our debates like urban street gangs. I will say this as a conservative. Liberalism is decidedly winning this war in which we will all end up losers.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 14,208,858 times
Reputation: 4563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
That's because Conservatives absolutely have no credibility, no record of success, no answers, don't know the questions, don't know how to pick people to be president or vice-president, don't understand other cultures, underestimate people they don't know, don't know how to bridge the gap, have no clue on foreign policy, health care reform, education reform, or tax reform, have absolutely no idea how to run an economy, not a clue on how to fight crime, have no success in any drug war, have absolutely no answers in how to stop gang violence, no clue on civil rights, absolutely no understanding of the woman's right to choose, have no respect for American workers, cater to the low class, the uneducated, the narrow-minded, and the klan, have no interest in the infrastructure, believe in that farcical ineffective trickle-down economic theory, promote the good ol boy network of incompetents, blindly support untalented people as leaders and politicians, voted for the worst man to reside in the oval office in history, voted for this village idiot twice, thought podunk Palin was suitable enough to be a heartbeat away from running this country after the village idiot, are racially divisive, supported by the klan, supported by some of the most narrow-minded people in this country, don't support technological research, oppose stem-cell, have no interest in fighting cancer or other deadly diseases, no interest in biotechnological research, no interest in biomedical research, prefer to go to Mars rather to the nation's inner cities, prefer to rebuild Iraq rather than the nation's inner cities, falsely believe that every other country wants to be like us, pompous enough to think that lying to justify war is acceptable behavior, don't know how to fight wars, have no clue on effective military strategy, never found Bin Laden, never found WMDs, think that simply saying "no new taxes" is enough to run the economy, prefer h1b over qualified Americans, prefer outsourcing, prefer profits over loyalty, and prefer to pick their noses in unregulated bliss. 8 years they had and we learned plenty about them.

Yes, I would say that "debating" these people is quite lame.
Bush wasn't really a conservative. Neither is/was Palin. And I'm conservative and don't meet any of the criteria on your list. This is a perfect example of the reason for this thread...you are a bigot against conservatives and would rather make petty insults than talk about the real issues. It's like a white person who hates blacks - you are merely a liberal who hates conservatives.

As to the OP, we need to focus on issues. There are likely very few Americans who identify with liberals in every way and very few Americans who identify with conservatives in every way. Us vs. them doesn't get anyone anywhere.
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