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Old 09-29-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,076 posts, read 4,564,505 times
Reputation: 2322

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Once again, you are still distancing yourself from reality. Call a lawyer. Get in touch with a charity. Think about the baby. They are thinking about the baby. They are thinking about what kind of life they can give that baby. When you lose your job because your boss fired you, you can call a lawyer. Guess what, that lawyer isn't going to pay your rent in the months and possibly years that a lawsuit is going to take. He's not going to put food on the table. He's not going to buy clothes for the children you already have.

Real world. Hard world. Abortion is not convenient, I don't care what the people you talk to have been telling you. You like statistics so much, figure out the people who are most at risk to have abortions, and volunteer your time. Put an ad in the paper offering to babysit for free for women who can't afford childcare. Start a coat drive for children whose families can't afford to buy new coats this winter.

Go to local diner and offer to pull a shift for a waitress so she can visit with her children's teachers. Go on to the hospital and volunteer to clean up delivery rooms after women give birth.

People who want to blame women for abortions say that abortions are just matters of convenience. Your statistics have been twisted to support your argument. Abortions aren't convenient. It's not easy, cheap and fun to have an abortion. Evidently, you think that being homeless is an inconvenience. It's not. Evidently, you think that gestational diabetes is an inconvenience. It's not. Evidently, you think that childbirth itself is an inconvenience. It's not.
If A woman is fired for being pregnant she has a legitimate lawsuit . that is a reality.
You originally made the claim that woman do not get abortions for the reason of convenience i show you a stat claiming 93 % do. If you want to show me a study that differs from that please do so we can discuss it.

Thanks for your volunteerism i volunteer for an local adoption agency. that is why I know they will pay all medical bills for the mother to be. I do feed them hot meals and take food to the ones that are on bed rest. I like your spirit of voluntarism and hope you also support those woman who choose to murder there babies and help them get to counselors and feed them after they have killed. I presume by your spirit you do not wish to see those that choose to be murdered to be left alone after the deed.
I prefer to deal with them before they choose murder and try to help them and the baby.
I have work with homeless pregnant families everyday I know it can be done.
Adoption over murder.
Pro life over pro abortion.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,237 posts, read 27,195,922 times
Reputation: 10607
By the way...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. One child being born impacts a lot of people, so you need to take their needs and weigh them against the needs of that ONE child. If the needs conflict, majority rules.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,076 posts, read 4,564,505 times
Reputation: 2322
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
By the way...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. One child being born impacts a lot of people, so you need to take their needs and weigh them against the needs of that ONE child. If the needs conflict, majority rules.
Not sure what your point is. Are you saying we should have a vote on who gets killed by abortion and who lives?
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:50 AM
 
29,233 posts, read 11,847,352 times
Reputation: 7748
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
If A woman is fired for being pregnant she has a legitimate lawsuit . that is a reality.
You originally made the claim that woman do not get abortions for the reason of convenience i show you a stat claiming 93 % do. If you want to show me a study that differs from that please do so we can discuss it.

Thanks for your volunteerism i volunteer for an local adoption agency. that is why I know they will pay all medical bills for the mother to be. I do feed them hot meals and take food to the ones that are on bed rest. I like your spirit of voluntarism and hope you also support those woman who choose to murder there babies and help them get to counselors and feed them after they have killed. I presume by your spirit you do not wish to see those that choose to be murdered to be left alone after the deed.
I prefer to deal with them before they choose murder and try to help them and the baby.
I have work with homeless pregnant families everyday I know it can be done.
Adoption over murder.
Pro life over pro abortion.
If a woman is fired because she is pregnant, she has a lawsuit case. She doesn't have any guarantee that she will win. And she has nothing to live on while she fights in court. THAT IS REALITY. Do you think that employers don't take steps to make it look like she was fired for other reasons? Do you think prospective employers are thrilled with the idea of hiring a pregnant woman, especially one that has demonstrated a willingness to litigate? THAT IS REALITY.

I will sincerely thank you for volunteering to work with an adoption agency. But you are still only exposing yourself to one side of the issue. And you are assuming a position of superiority to people who don't have the luxury of looking at this issue from the philosophical viewpoint. It is a luxury to be able to volunteer your time to help women who are in accord with you on this issue. But they are in accord with you. They are validating your opinion and you are validating theirs. If everything were as easy as you are pretending, then women wouldn't be seeking abortions. There's a bigger reality out there then the limited one you are advocating. I'm sorry if you don't believe it, but it's just a few steps further than you're willing to go.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,237 posts, read 27,195,922 times
Reputation: 10607
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
Not sure what your point is. Are you saying we should have a vote on who gets killed by abortion and who lives?
No, I'm suggesting you look at the NUMBER of people negatively impacted by the birth, compared to the number of people negatively impacted by the abortion.

Many vs. one.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:58 AM
 
29,233 posts, read 11,847,352 times
Reputation: 7748
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
If A woman is fired for being pregnant she has a legitimate lawsuit . that is a reality.
You originally made the claim that woman do not get abortions for the reason of convenience i show you a stat claiming 93 % do. If you want to show me a study that differs from that please do so we can discuss it.

Thanks for your volunteerism i volunteer for an local adoption agency. that is why I know they will pay all medical bills for the mother to be. I do feed them hot meals and take food to the ones that are on bed rest. I like your spirit of voluntarism and hope you also support those woman who choose to murder there babies and help them get to counselors and feed them after they have killed. I presume by your spirit you do not wish to see those that choose to be murdered to be left alone after the deed.
I prefer to deal with them before they choose murder and try to help them and the baby.
I have work with homeless pregnant families everyday I know it can be done.
Adoption over murder.
Pro life over pro abortion.
My dispute over your "convenience" claim, is that what is inconvenient to you is life-changing for someone else. Your statistic is meaningless when it fails to substantially address what it defines as "convenience". And the statistics regarding abortion reasons are inherently flawed, anyway. They depend on women being fully honest as to why they are seeking abortions, but at the same time putting a checkmark by whatever reasons. For instance, 50% of rapes go unreported. Women who've been raped that don't report it to the authorities also don't report it to health clinics. They've made a choice to hide the rape. They fear the health clinic might "out" them. So they don't tell. Women who are in abusive relationships also hide the abuse. Similarly, they don't share that information with health clinics either. The typical questionaires that women fill out have about ten reasons listed as options of why they are seeking an abortion. And at least five of those reasons are simply different wordings for can't afford a child. The statistic is faulty because the sampling method is faulty, and the questionaires are faulty.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,076 posts, read 4,564,505 times
Reputation: 2322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
If a woman is fired because she is pregnant, she has a lawsuit case. She doesn't have any guarantee that she will win. And she has nothing to live on while she fights in court. THAT IS REALITY. Do you think that employers don't take steps to make it look like she was fired for other reasons? Do you think prospective employers are thrilled with the idea of hiring a pregnant woman, especially one that has demonstrated a willingness to litigate? THAT IS REALITY.

I will sincerely thank you for volunteering to work with an adoption agency. But you are still only exposing yourself to one side of the issue. And you are assuming a position of superiority to people who don't have the luxury of looking at this issue from the philosophical viewpoint. It is a luxury to be able to volunteer your time to help women who are in accord with you on this issue. But they are in accord with you. They are validating your opinion and you are validating theirs. If everything were as easy as you are pretending, then women wouldn't be seeking abortions. There's a bigger reality out there then the limited one you are advocating. I'm sorry if you don't believe it, but it's just a few steps further than you're willing to go.
If you know of a woman who has been fired because she is pregnant send them to me I can get them a lawyer that is clear sex discrimination. Companies do not want to have that kind of suit in the press.
I'm not willing to kill the unborn. your position is it is OK. Mine it is not. Right now the law allows this genocide to continue. when woman are given a clear choice other than abortion they can choose it. Planned Parenthood does some good things in the area of birth control and promoting education. They present adoption as a choice as a foot note to having an abortion. Adoption agencies look for unwed mothers to help. we take no tax money and are non profit. 100% of our infants have adopted parents before birth. We give counseling to the mothers after birth for as many years as they choose they need it.
Planned parent hood is great at abortions then leaving the mothers at the door with no help after the abortion.
Life over death
There is always a better way than abortion, unless the health of the mother is endangered
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,237 posts, read 27,195,922 times
Reputation: 10607
It is inconvenient for me to pay taxes that pay for some kid's welfare for 18 years...and where there's one, there's usually MORE than one.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,076 posts, read 4,564,505 times
Reputation: 2322
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
No, I'm suggesting you look at the NUMBER of people negatively impacted by the birth, compared to the number of people negatively impacted by the abortion.

Many vs. one.
So you advocate killing them over letting them live? 46 million unborn have been impacted by the death sentence of abortion . Do you have numbers of how many have been impacted by allowing people to live?
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 24,540,520 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
We still have to see how those laws work out. There will be a practical aspect to enforcing such laws. And there will most certainly be challenges. When the Supreme Court upholds such laws, then such laws will really have weight. But just because some states are enacting such laws does not mean the laws are good. Some states have laws that say that atheists can't hold public office or serve on juries. Some states have laws about elephants being prohibited from parades held on Sundays.
Allow me to explain the reason(s) for the fetal homicide laws I presented to the forum yesterday.

First off, the laws ARE NOT INTENDED, nor designed, to stop legal abortions. Some in the Pro Abortion community will try to tell you they are but, they are not being truthful.

The fetal homicide laws were, and are, to allow prosecution of those who cause the death of a unborn child when the Mother WANTS the child. Where the Mother has no intention of terminating the pregnancy.

The laws originated because there were, are ARE, cases where the Female finds she is pregnant, wants the child, and the Male does not want the child and DELIBERATELY harms the female in such a way so as to cause the death of the unborn. Often, the male would violently punched, or kicked, the female - so hard, a miscarriage would occur - and, in many cases, the female would die.

Over the many years these laws have been around, prosecutions for causing the death of the unborn would occur in cases where someone, during the commission of another crime, caused the death of the unborn. One case I'm familiar with, a drunk driver slammed into a car where a pregnant female was a passenger - the female survived but the unborn child did not. A successful charge of manslaughter was brought for the death of the unborn.

Fetal Homicide laws are in some 30+ States (and more states are following) - have been court tested, and have survived the court tests.

So, to those who are "bent out of shape" at these laws, please, understand, the laws are NOT to stop abortions.
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