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Old 04-30-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere East of Laramie
47,713 posts, read 33,660,803 times
Reputation: 21768

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Any reasonable person would be able to assume that "personal responsibility" applies to both persons responsible for the creation of a child. You won't find one post from me that has presumed total responsibility to entirely lie with the female. Settle down.


And just HOW is it irresponsible when people choose to not have children yet are still faced with an unwanted pregnancy due to failed birth control? YOU are the one presuming an irresponsible approach to life.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: here
23,596 posts, read 26,301,536 times
Reputation: 28019
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
We view the child as a person.

Let me ask you this...if I fought for my right to kill my born child, wouldn't you fight against me having that right? Therefore, abortion is not something I will EVER just sit back and accept being allowed to occur.

You can say it's different and I'll admit, to an extent, it is. But don't you dare tell us we can't fight to end what we view as murder. Until (which I doubt you ever will) you see it the way you do, you can never understand.
I get it. sort of. What I don't get is the obsession some people have with this topic when it does not personally affect them. There are so many other atrocities in the world. If we could focus all of this energy on those, we'd have a better world!

When I read these threads I always leave singing "every sperm is sacred..." to myself.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:45 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 904,852 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap1717 View Post
Heck, by this (Catholic) logic, every young girl who starts having periods in (unintentionally) "aborting" the life of the unfertilized egg that was released from her ovary. . . . so, all women are "sinners" / "murderers"? Let's all carry this through to it's logical conclusion. . . . if human population continues to increase in the way that it has been wont to do. . . well, it is entirely plausible that all "sentient" life on this planet will be wiped out. . . and that, folks, is where "religion" gets you!
What do unfertilized eggs have to do with abortion?
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,089 posts, read 4,316,366 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
What do unfertilized eggs have to do with abortion?
Both the unfertilized egg, and the viable sperm are "alive", in exactly the same sense that a fetus is "alive"!
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:49 PM
 
399 posts, read 398,327 times
Reputation: 113
Its not about moral judgement. You can argue about this for the rest of humanity.

Its an economic decision/judgement. Take away abortion, Women are still going to get abortions. Its just that women might die too, while perfoming on themselves. Just read about Bangladesh, their suicide rate is higher in pregnant women. Especially very young ones who can't handle giving birth. So they choose to end their life or perform it on themselves. There is going to be chaos if it were illegal especially in a proggresive-liberal movement which is happening in Americaa
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Bay Area
3,785 posts, read 7,011,147 times
Reputation: 4009
The anti- abortionist really crack me up. All the arguments against it are silly..like you really all give a sh** after some unknown embryo is destroyed by some unknown woman across the country. I think your moral compasses seem to be seriously pointing in the wrong direction.

Where's all the outrage over all the men that are not paying child support, outrage over these born children w/o health care (oops, that's too "socialist" of an idea) or the outrage over parents that don't give a crap about the kids they already birthed? Men?

Where's the outrage on saving unwanted uncared for BORN children? Why aren't you all on your pious high horses while children are dying from war or starvation. Oh, let me guess, you do care about those issues..when in fact you've done nothing at all. Saving the living doesn't allow you to control others and doesn't allow you to wave your crosses and speak for God enough.

When children are not sold into prostitution, sexually abused by their father's or uncles, when millions of babies are saved from starvation, poverty worldwide is abolished, and the unwanted children living in foster homes/orphanages are all adopted, THEN we can talk about saving the unborn fetus of some stranger.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:51 PM
 
37,225 posts, read 20,983,362 times
Reputation: 11354
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Abortion is wrong. Those posters who say "if you don't like one, don't have one" and "her body, her choice"....you INCENSE me. What about the child?

If a woman said "I want to kill my 2 year old," you wouldn't say that's her right. So why a fetus? Many pro-choicers support legaliizing abortions even when the fetus is viable - late second trimester and third trimester. How digusting!

Pro-choicers...THE FETUS IS IN YOUR BODY, BUT IS NOT MERELY A BODY PART! IT IS NOT YOUR CHOICE TO KILL IT!

Abortion should at the minimum be a states' rights issue and Roe v. Wade should be overturned. 60% of people in my state...including well over half of WOMEN alone...are against it. Why do we have to allow the murders on our turf?

I also strongly agree with the posters who suggest that abortion is a means of absolving yourself from any personal responsibility. Everything is about "What I want, NOW!" Welcome to the times when instant gratification means more than anything else.
You're right, the fetus is in MY body. Does being a woman mean second-class citizenship?

Because it is second-class citizenship if everytime I'm pregnant, the fetus's rights become more important than mine.

It is second-class citizenship if I have to prove that my choices are valid, that my reasoning is sound, that I've behaved responsibly and am not morally deficit.

It is second-class citizenship if my privacy is jeopardized by the mere fact of the possibility of my becoming pregnant.

It's not about being pro-abortion. It's about being pro-women. It's about respect. I respect your viewpoint. Can you respect mine? I respect the fact that every woman facing an unwanted pregnancy has a range of concerns known only to her, and that she has good reason to want to keep those concerns private. Can you respect that? I respect that an unwanted pregnancy is an unhappy situation, none of the choices being desirable. Can you respect that? I respect that the woman is as valuable a human being as the fetus she is carrying, and that society has made an additional substantial investment in that woman. Demeaning her, minimizing the issues she faces, isn't constructive.

When it comes to abortion, pro-lifers need to address the many problems women have to deal with if they choose to go through with the pregnancy. Start fixing the problems, stop fixing the blame.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:52 PM
 
399 posts, read 398,327 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by clongirl View Post

When children are not sold into prostitution, sexually abused by their father's or uncles, when millions of babies are saved from starvation, poverty worldwide is abolished, and the unwanted children living in foster homes/orphanages are all adopted, THEN we can talk about saving the unborn fetus of some stranger.

The reason people don't pay attention to THAT as much is because these are REAL Problems. And this is too much for people to think about. So they talk about "Abortion being immoral" because it doesn't require much "thinking" those problems are too great and depressing for the majority of people.


SO I agree with you.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:52 PM
 
23,852 posts, read 17,807,731 times
Reputation: 9359
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And just HOW is it irresponsible when people choose to not have children yet are still faced with an unwanted pregnancy due to failed birth control? YOU are the one presuming an irresponsible approach to life.
As I said earlier, just because a $2 condom breaks, all of a sudden the responsibility that comes with being a parent ceases to exist? Accidents happen, but both parties knew that going into the situation. It's a risk we take. Some win, some lose, but the innocent child shouldn't be sacrificed for our convenience, in my opinion.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:55 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,622 posts, read 15,453,419 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
A child is not a punishment. I resent that you'd even begin to call it one.

Adoption is always an option BTW.
Quote:
Punishment is the practice of imposing something unpleasant or aversive on a person or animal, usually in response to disobedience, defiance, or behavior deemed morally wrong by individual, governmental, or religious principles.
Seems like punishment to me to force a woman to birth.

Throw em in foster care with the rest of the unwanteds!

Not every child is adopted, you know.
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