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Old 05-01-2009, 09:11 AM
 
1,336 posts, read 1,526,118 times
Reputation: 202

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
We want you to realize that because you have an opinion of what the definition of life should be, doesn't make it fact. We all have opinions. Yours is worth no more than any one else's.
So you're doubting that a new embryo contains the full genetic code of an adult? Is this the part you are doubting? I want to make sure.

 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,224 posts, read 4,992,709 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
I've already proven in an earlier thread (inexplicably merged with another) why an embryo is scientifically a living human being beyond the shadow of a doubt. (I reposted it in post #10 on this thread).

Now let's apply a simple golden rule test to abortion.

I'm sure we all agree that the person most affected by an action should be the one making decisions pertaining to it.

In the case of abortion, that would be the child. OK, since a fetus cannot decide for itself whether it should live or die at the hands of an abortion doctor, the only fair thing to do is pose a simple question to 1000 random individuals:

"Are you glad you are born, or do you wish you had been aborted?"

Obvioulsy in a random sample, the prohibitive majority would say "I'm glad I was born. I am happy to be alive." Probably 980 to 990 out of 1000 would say that. (This allows for the 1.3% suicide rate). So, since the average person is overwhelmingly likely to be glad he was born, WHO THE HELL IS ANYONE TO MAKE THE DECISION TO KILL A FETUS BEFORE IT IS BORN?

It's a simple matter of applying the golden rule. If you wouldn't have chosen death for yourself, how could you choose it for somebody else?

K.. let's get beyond the science here..

First.. I'l state my position.. I'm pro choice. I personally, however, would never chose to have an abortion.

Now. your line about the person whom the decision affects most should make the decision.

Now.. we're getting into some other "territory" here... with my answer but bear with me.

If you believe that a person has a "soul" and that "soul" has free will. Now I believe that we all make decisions in our lives.. some are concious waking decisions, others are decisions that our "souls" have made that is burried within us and comes from a more enlightened place.. Some of the decisions our "souls" make are not decisions we would neccesarily make of our concious mind (we come down to experience life for GOD and we set up challenges in our life. .wether it be an illness we chose to have and deal with, or an obstacle in life we chose to deal with etc). AND the people we chose to come down with adn meet in our lives are all part and party to those choices.. how it affects or doesn't affect them.

That being said, the mother who got pregnant, the soul she bears inside her... wether that soul enters this life or not how do you know that that decision was not made between the mother's soul, the childs soul and God? How do you know that at that juncture in life, it was something that both the soul of the child and mother experienced for a reason.

THIS is why I'm pro choice. Ultimately the choice of a woman to have an abortion does not ultimately affect society.. it affects that individuals life, that childs life and those associated with those people's lives. Who am I do make a decision on someone else's life chart or interfere.

What was meant to be will be. It needs to be left to the souls of the people whom the pregnancy directly affects. Simply because that child can not talk, speak (the baby) does not mean that that childs SOUL hasn't made the decision or had a part in that decision on a level beyond the concious what you can see and touch level.

It would be great if every child that was ever going to be aborted was never aborted and lived.. but it simply was not meant to be for whatever reason. If you are pro life, youll never make that choice for yourself. and that's great.. you go with what YOU believe. I would NEVER have an abortion.. I'd have that child (would I have made a different decision if I was younger.. perhaps but fortunately I never had to make that decision). But who am I to tell someone else what they should do and mess with their spiritual path in life?
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:15 AM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,069,758 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
So you're doubting that a new embryo contains the full genetic code of an adult? Is this the part you are doubting? I want to make sure.
That is YOUR idea of life. Maybe mine is more along the lines of being viable outside the womb. You can't argue the fact that, early in pregnancy, really for more than half of a pregnancy, the fetus can not survive on it's own. That is a fact.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:17 AM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,069,758 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
So you're doubting that a new embryo contains the full genetic code of an adult? Is this the part you are doubting? I want to make sure.
so, that's what "life" is to you? genetic coding? It means a bit more to me.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,844,324 times
Reputation: 1298
Originally Posted by clongirl
Your post has got to be the most ridiculous I've read on this subject. You honestly think that women think this is convenient, fun, cheap, and considered birth control? It's painful, emotional, and often a gut wrenching decision. It's expensive, humiliating and she's often all alone w/o any support from the man whatsoever emotionally or financially (which is why she's probably having the abortion to begin with)

As a man (obviously) how the he** would you know how women feel? YOU DON'T.

You are so wrong about men not knowing how it feels to loose a child to an abortion. It is like some one has ripped out your heart. So many times you don't even tell us. You forget that half of the baby you are carrying is ours even though you are the ones who make the decision to destroy life. I believe that it’s both partners who should make certain the woman does not become pregnant. If a woman got pregnant from being stupid and having sex with some one she does not know she deserves to feel like a dirty rag. With so many different methods of birth control why a woman would choose to use none makes no sense. Lastly most men do love their children and would love to be dads. Why don't you think about that before you spread your legs for a guy you are not sure about? Stop thinking with your sexual organs and start using your brains.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,867 posts, read 21,962,504 times
Reputation: 13697
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
I get it. sort of. What I don't get is the obsession some people have with this topic when it does not personally affect them. There are so many other atrocities in the world. If we could focus all of this energy on those, we'd have a better world!

When I read these threads I always leave singing "every sperm is sacred..." to myself.
Maybe it does it matter where a person focuses their energy, if they do not respect the life of innocent children?
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:19 AM
 
1,336 posts, read 1,526,118 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
K.. let's get beyond the science here..

First.. I'l state my position.. I'm pro choice. I personally, however, would never chose to have an abortion.

Now. your line about the person whom the decision affects most should make the decision.

Now.. we're getting into some other "territory" here... with my answer but bear with me.

If you believe that a person has a "soul" and that "soul" has free will. Now I believe that we all make decisions in our lives.. some are concious waking decisions, others are decisions that our "souls" have made that is burried within us and comes from a more enlightened place.. Some of the decisions our "souls" make are not decisions we would neccesarily make of our concious mind (we come down to experience life for GOD and we set up challenges in our life. .wether it be an illness we chose to have and deal with, or an obstacle in life we chose to deal with etc). AND the people we chose to come down with adn meet in our lives are all part and party to those choices.. how it affects or doesn't affect them.

That being said, the mother who got pregnant, the soul she bears inside her... wether that soul enters this life or not how do you know that that decision was not made between the mother's soul, the childs soul and God? How do you know that at that juncture in life, it was something that both the soul of the child and mother experienced for a reason.

THIS is why I'm pro choice. Ultimately the choice of a woman to have an abortion does not ultimately affect society.. it affects that individuals life, that childs life and those associated with those people's lives. Who am I do make a decision on someone else's life chart or interfere.

What was meant to be will be. It needs to be left to the souls of the people whom the pregnancy directly affects. Simply because that child can not talk, speak (the baby) does not mean that that childs SOUL hasn't made the decision or had a part in that decision on a level beyond the concious what you can see and touch level.

It would be great if every child that was ever going to be aborted was never aborted and lived.. but it simply was not meant to be for whatever reason. If you are pro life, youll never make that choice for yourself. and that's great.. you go with what YOU believe. I would NEVER have an abortion.. I'd have that child (would I have made a different decision if I was younger.. perhaps but fortunately I never had to make that decision). But who am I to tell someone else what they should do and mess with their spiritual path in life?
A child's soul made a pact with the mother's soul and God? LOLOL.
OMG. What a convoluted bunch of mumbo jumbo to justify abortion. I swear to God, some of you people are off the deep end.

So you think the death of a child only affects the mother and not society? Why, then, the outrage over Casey Whats-his-name killing his toddler?
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:20 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,765,683 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stac2007 View Post
Originally Posted by clongirl
Your post has got to be the most ridiculous I've read on this subject. You honestly think that women think this is convenient, fun, cheap, and considered birth control? It's painful, emotional, and often a gut wrenching decision. It's expensive, humiliating and she's often all alone w/o any support from the man whatsoever emotionally or financially (which is why she's probably having the abortion to begin with)

As a man (obviously) how the he** would you know how women feel? YOU DON'T.

You are so wrong about men not knowing how it feels to loose a child to an abortion. It is like some one has ripped out your heart. So many times you don't even tell us. You forget that half of the baby you are carrying is ours even though you are the ones who make the decision to destroy life. I believe that it’s both partners who should make certain the woman does not become pregnant. If a woman got pregnant from being stupid and having sex with some one she does not know she deserves to feel like a dirty rag. With so many different methods of birth control why a woman would choose to use none makes no sense. Lastly most men do love their children and would love to be dads. Why don't you think about that before you spread your legs for a guy you are not sure about? Stop thinking with your sexual organs and start using your brains.
Birth control is not 100%.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,867 posts, read 21,962,504 times
Reputation: 13697
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap1717 View Post
Both the unfertilized egg, and the viable sperm are "alive", in exactly the same sense that a fetus is "alive"!
I think you are stretching logic there, and will lose this debate every time, if that is your definition of life.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,069,758 times
Reputation: 32726
I have a friend who had an abortion in Junior college. She went on to graduate from a 4 year college, started a career, and got together with a new boyfriend. She is now married to him and has 2 kids with him. They are the "perfect" traditional family that your righties all love so much. If she'd had a baby with her first BF, she probably wouldn't have finished college, or found "Mr Right". She would have been stuck in her home town with her not so perfect JC BF. Or they'd have broken up and the child would now be from a broken home. Maybe she wouldn' t have had one or both of the kids she has now. Things turned out for the better because of the choice she made.
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