Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:22 AM
 
6,757 posts, read 8,243,219 times
Reputation: 10152

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
So if we legalized rape, would that make it morally right? In a hypothetical situation in a world where rape is legal, would I be justified in doing it just because it is legal? Is slavery right just because at one time it was legal? Is killing Jews right just because it was legal? Abortion is murder, and murder is illegal. Therefore, abortion SHOULD be illegal.
<shakes head>

Should we all live by your moral code and quirky logic?

Genocide is, of course, illegal, as is assault. Abortion is not, and, but for a limited period of time, has not been. Mostly, abortion was not reported or discussed. The difference is that we now keep statistics on it.

Even in Biblical times, an assault which caused the end of a pregnancy was only considered an assault on the woman, not a baby. There was no punishment for aborting the fetus by assault, and babies were not considered legally human until they had been alive outside the woman's body for a certain period of time (different for boys & girls).

 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:23 AM
 
6,757 posts, read 8,243,219 times
Reputation: 10152
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
This is your view. It is not a universal view. The question of viability is a valid one. Almost a million fetuses are lost in miscarriages every year in the US. We don't include those numbers in the death rates that are statistically tabulated for a reason.

If you are opposed to abortion, you need to attack the reasons why women seek abortions, rather than attacking the women who feel that it's the best choice for them. Their reasons are valid. Fix the real problems instead of fixing blame.
Agreed. The blame game helps no one, and does not further the cause of reducing abortion to the lowest possible level, which is something we all want.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:24 AM
 
1,336 posts, read 1,524,098 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldmaiden View Post
You need a different analogy, because this one doesn't work. Rape is assault, and it is illegal. Abortion is a legal medical procedure.
Abortion is far more violent than rape, and it always results in death. Is that what you mean by the analogy not working? Not a fair comparison?

The whole point of the debate is that abortion should not be legal. You're essentially saying 'abortion should be legal because it's legal'.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,112 posts, read 30,540,687 times
Reputation: 16394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Abortion is far more violent than rape, and it always results in death. Is that what you mean by the analogy not working? Not a fair comparison?

The whole point of the debate is that abortion should not be legal. You're essentially saying 'abortion should be legal because it's legal'.

Fine, go ahead and make abortions illegal. You HONESTLY think this will stop women from having them??? No. They will go back to the coat hanger on the kitchen table, dirty 'doctors' offices etc etc and you will see not only the fetus destroyed, but the woman killed as well.

We need education and legal, safe abortions for those who want them. It should be none of YOUR business who gets them and why.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:29 AM
 
207 posts, read 242,598 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
It's a case of simple logic.

A human embryo from the moment of conception is exactly the same as an adult human being except in stage of development. There is no other difference. Period. A human embryo WILL develop into an adult human being barring premature death. Period. Ironclad.

This statement is so simple and so irrefutable. It eliminates all the arbitrary BS the left tries to apply to somehow imply an embryo or fetus is "not yet human". It is of the human species at the moment of conception. It has all the chromosomes an adult has. Developmental stage is the only difference.


And just as I can't take your kidney without you saying it's okay the fetus cannot take my uterus without me agreeing to it, regardless of how human it is.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,036,251 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
I've already proven in an earlier thread (inexplicably merged with another) why an embryo is scientifically a living human being beyond the shadow of a doubt. (I reposted it in post #10 on this thread).

Now let's apply a simple golden rule test to abortion.

I'm sure we all agree that the person most affected by an action should be the one making decisions pertaining to it.

In the case of abortion, that would be the child. OK, since a fetus cannot decide for itself whether it should live or die at the hands of an abortion doctor, the only fair thing to do is pose a simple question to 1000 random individuals:

"Are you glad you are born, or do you wish you had been aborted?"

Obvioulsy in a random sample, the prohibitive majority would say "I'm glad I was born. I am happy to be alive." Probably 980 to 990 out of 1000 would say that. (This allows for the 1.3% suicide rate). So, since the average person is overwhelmingly likely to be glad he was born, WHO THE HELL IS ANYONE TO MAKE THE DECISION TO KILL A FETUS BEFORE IT IS BORN?

It's a simple matter of applying the golden rule. If you wouldn't have chosen death for yourself, how could you choose it for somebody else?
Two critical points, a fetus is not a person, and it's fundamentally an issue of the woman's right to control her body -- She may terminate the pregnancy if she no longer desire to support the fetus. I have no problem if the hospital can save the fetus, which would then become a ward of the state.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:33 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,732,328 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Abortion is far more violent than rape, and it always results in death. Is that what you mean by the analogy not working? Not a fair comparison?

The whole point of the debate is that abortion should not be legal. You're essentially saying 'abortion should be legal because it's legal'.
And forcing a woman who's been raped to carry that child to term is like raping her over and over again for nine months straight. Making her endure the moment when she realized what was going to happen again and again and again. Making her feel powerless, making her choices meaningless, making her less than human, a tool for the rapist to treat in any manner he chooses.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,088 posts, read 5,333,180 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
I've already proven in an earlier thread (inexplicably merged with another) why an embryo is scientifically a living human being beyond the shadow of a doubt. (I reposted it in post #10 on this thread).

Now let's apply a simple golden rule test to abortion.

I'm sure we all agree that the person most affected by an action should be the one making decisions pertaining to it.

In the case of abortion, that would be the child. OK, since a fetus cannot decide for itself whether it should live or die at the hands of an abortion doctor, the only fair thing to do is pose a simple question to 1000 random individuals:

"Are you glad you are born, or do you wish you had been aborted?"

Obvioulsy in a random sample, the prohibitive majority would say "I'm glad I was born. I am happy to be alive." Probably 980 to 990 out of 1000 would say that. (This allows for the 1.3% suicide rate). So, since the average person is overwhelmingly likely to be glad he was born, WHO THE HELL IS ANYONE TO MAKE THE DECISION TO KILL A FETUS BEFORE IT IS BORN?

It's a simple matter of applying the golden rule. If you wouldn't have chosen death for yourself, how could you choose it for somebody else?
Perhaps you message is "truth", perhaps it is not. . . I have three questions for you. . . who are you before you are born? and who are you after you die? Does you answer to these questions indicate that "death" is a meaningful concept?
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:37 AM
 
207 posts, read 242,598 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Terribly sorry, chum. People don't own other people, remember? That was outlawed in 1863. A woman has no more moral right to kill her fetus than your mum has to shotgun you to death right now.


And yet one also does not have the right to use another person's body without their agreement. Even if not using another persons body leads to their death.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 11:40 AM
 
6,757 posts, read 8,243,219 times
Reputation: 10152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Abortion is far more violent than rape, and it always results in death. Is that what you mean by the analogy not working? Not a fair comparison?

The whole point of the debate is that abortion should not be legal. You're essentially saying 'abortion should be legal because it's legal'.
Taking pills is not more violent than rape, trust me. If you'd been raped, you would know.

Abortion is legal because the rights of a fully formed and sentient human female are held to be higher than the rights of an unformed and incomplete human fetus. Just like I cannot force you to take in my child, if I had one, you cannot force me to carry a child.

The right to reproduce also includes the right NOT to reproduce. Now, do I think abortion is a good form of birth control? Absolutely not. I would much rather see better sex ed by parents and schools, and better compliance in using hormonal and/or barrier methods to prevent pregnancy. But, no matter what method you use, there is a failure rate. That's what abortion is for, and for fetal anomalies that are incompatible with life/quality of life.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top