Obama; Not a student of history - Wrong on Churchill

[SAI126]

No Obama is not a history buff, nor are the vast majority of people on this board or anywhere else. As far as editing and research, just read a few traditional and on line news sources. The spelling, grammatical, and historical errors are all over the place. We've had a dumbing down process for at least two generations and it's really going to cost us big time. Yes, the British who once had a mighty empire that the sun never set on, did from time to time employ various forms of torture. It may not have been an official policy, it may not have always been common, but it happened. I don't fault Obama for taking the stance he did, I don't believe in waterboarding or other forms of so called torture myself. This country has virtually destroyed its ability to gather intelligence. That is a far more important issue to me. Torture as a means to gather specific and credible information is highly overrated. So Obama is not a historian but he is entitled to make that particular policy decision. I do wish he would release his health and academic records.

[Wapasha]

Originally Posted by sanrene

Ben Smith's Blog: Obama and Churchill - POLITICO.com
The secrets of the London Cage | UK news | The Guardian

Says Obama last night;



What a complete dunderhead - of course the media is reticent to correct him. As Ben notes, it looks like he got this directly from A. Sullivan (aka TrigTruther)

The Brits not only tortured, they reduced Berlin to rubble, killing tens of thousands of civilians. Seeing as how Hitler had no compunction doing the same to London, it was well justified.

Have we ever had a president so ignorant of recent history?

I thought that 0bama returned the bust of Churchill to the British, because his family claims that Churchill's people beat and tortured 0bama's grandfather, during a revolt in Kenya. So, is 0bama once again lying for political gain?

Beatings and abuse made Barack Obama’s grandfather loathe the British Link

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

What can you provide about how Americans treated German prisoners as compared to how Germans treated Americans? I can provide you with some eyeball witnesses of how German POWs were treated in the US and some really good ones who suffered from malnutrition from German inability to feed them.

No, you are wrong talking about POWs as the Geneva Conventions required treatment that couldn't always be provided but some of those Germans who weren't even penned up in northcentral Kansas and, in fact, married girls in the community before going home and then coming back.

We aren't talking about the same kind of people. Germans who were captured out of uniform were considered probable spies and didn't have to be treated the same as those in German uniforms. Comparing Germans in this case to Muslims who were not wearing uniforms and not even fighting under a national flag is like comparing oranges to bananas.

From Andrew Sullivan today:

"We don't have documentation that authorizes the torture, and no evidence that Churchill knew of or approved of it. We do know that the central institution for interrogating captured Nazi spies - Camp 020 - used no torture at all.
...
Here's his interesting reply, which has a bottom line of confirming that this looks, pace Jonah Goldberg, very much like an aberration, as often happens in wartime, and not policy, along the lines of the Bush-Cheney top-down program."

The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

People can chose to believe whatever they want. Yes, Churchill ordered the bombing of Dresden that killed 100,000+ men, women and children, kind of like Bush ordered the bombing of Baghdad that probably killed more than that. But, as far as anyone can determine, Churchill did not advocate a policy of torture, and that, in my opinion, is the point that the president was trying to articulate.



Some evidence of how German prisoners were treated from VetVoice along with some thoughts on the ramifications of the policy instituted by the Bush administration:


VetVoice:: Torture Advocates Will Set the Military Back for Generations

[djacques]

Originally Posted by mwruckman

Also German bombing killed nearly 40,000 Londoners during the Battle of Britain. I think Mr Churchill showed great humanity during the war.

Churchill and Roosevelt burned that many people to death in Dresden in a single night.