Is it unfortunate to be an Asian male? (thought, statistics, racism)

[carolinajack]

duckburg, if you think the asian males have it bad, try being a black male, it isnt fun all the time

[blue62]

It is unfortunate to be an Asian male only if the Asian male thinks he is. Be proud of who you are. Believe it or not, but most people don't judge your race or any other by the "bad apple" few.

[Frank the Tank]

I'm a "halfbreed" - half-Asian and half-Caucasian - so this is a pretty interesting subject to me. If anything, I find interracial dating among Asians and whites more common than a lot of the other combinations.

What I believe Asian-Americans seem to face as a group in general is sort of a "purgatory", if you will. That is, there's one side of the ledger that considers Asian-Americans as virtual foreigners and outsiders because of the large differences in customs and language. Then, there's the other side of the ledger that believes that Asian-Americans, since they seem to generally be doing disproportionately well in terms of income and education even compared to whites, can't really be considered true minorities.

Don't discount the Hollywood factor, too. A lot of our perceptions of what's beautiful comes from movies and TV and there is a distinct lack of Asians in Hollywood when compared to other racial groups (i.e. I always find it funny looking at the cast of Grey's Anatomy with Sandra Cho being the lone Asian since your average hospital has 30-40% Asian doctors or more these days).

[carolinajack]

Frank, if the cast was a true make up the whites would not be much in the story and so hollywood would not know how to write romantic stories about Asians with other Asians, they only like stories where the hero, the main love interest is a white male and female. they have a hard time writing for blacks,asians,interracials, overweight, hispanic, or christians, and muslims.

they do well with whites, pagans, gays, and the other people in secondary roles.

[FilmCutter]

Originally Posted by carolinajack

Frank, if the cast was a true make up the whites would not be much in the story and so hollywood would not know how to write romantic stories about Asians with other Asians, they only like stories where the hero, the main love interest is a white male and female. they have a hard time writing for blacks,asians,interracials, overweight, hispanic, or christians, and muslims.

they do well with whites, pagans, gays, and the other people in secondary roles.

This is why we need to create our own roles and tv shows that depict the right images of minorities. Writers only write what they know, and if they don't know much about minorities, they're not going to write about it much. We have to stop looking to mainstream Hollywood to provide the images of us that we're looking for. Like that old saying, if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

[TootsieWootsie]

I'm thinking of retiring in SE Asia. I love Asian men, and dated one for a couple years when I was in my early 20's--I should have married him when he wanted to, and always have regretted it. He could use the American prophylactics, if you want to know.
Don't think the majority of the Asian men are hot, but when one is good looking...Oh, my! They are realllllly fine to me.
I'm Caucasian and the only one I know who feels this way. My attitude is: Good! More for me...hehehe!!!!

[oceanlab]

i disagree. being an asian female is an advantage. alot of white guys are always chasing asian women. by asian, i mean chinese.

Originally Posted by Martin Karadagian

I think both Asian males as well as Asian females are at a disadvantage as far as dating in the English speaking world. Any non-white racial group in general is at a disadvantage. This is just in general, eliminating personal issues aside.

If one checks a typical internet dating forum, a common question a non-white person will ask is; what are their chances of them dating a person from another race, often white. Or they may ask what their chances are in certain areas, or versus other areas. However, often at times a white person will state that because they have a certain racial preference other than white, they will therefore proceed to obtain someone from that racial group. It doesn't seem to matter what the white person looks like. For one, if nothing else for a white male wanting an attractive female, there's always mail order brides and/or similar services.

As far as Asian females being at a disadvantage, they may not as far as getting a date, but they seem to be finding out more and more that they're victims of racial stereotype as well as Asian males. They seem to be finding out more and more the plurality vs. singular attraction many white males have for Asian females. They're beginning to see the oxymoron of a white male who's dating or even married to an Asian female, saying "I love Asian women" vs. "I love a woman who by sheer coincidence happens to be Asian, and if she woke up white, black, Hispanic, Arab, etc. the next day I would still love her". I've seen this in life outside the internet (not someone waking up another race, but having Asian female addiction even while being married). I think the **** is in it's beginning stages of hitting the fan, but the splatter marks have already begun.

I'm not Asian, so I can't really say for sure what Asian men need to do, but i have my opinion. Most people would say work on one's personal being, and not worry about the stereotypes.

While I agree with one working on themselves personally, I don't think that's enough. Because many Asian males are educated, middle to upper-middle class, etc., some believe that media stereotype should not be an issue. Well, another area where Asian females do come out ahead in assimilating into the white world is that there's apparent evidence that an Asian female out of college is more likely to get hired than an Asian male. This theory or fact may get skewed by the fact that Silicon Valley imports Asian and South Asian males for high-tech jobs that pay very highly. But this is because it's an advantage to the companies that hire them. They're bringing them in because they're really that talented. It's not an Affirmative Action type issue. It's like the Japanese players brought in to Major League Baseball. They don't bring them in to give MLB more of a foreign flair. This players are really that good.

The stereotype is very damaging. We're talking 100 years plus of it ingrained into our psyche. It works the same way as TV commercials. We're on to their game. We all know why we run off to 7-11 late at night just for a craving/fix. They know that we know we're on to their game, and they still run cheesy corny advertisements because it still works. The stand-up comedians, comedy movies, and movies in general can use the same stereotypes over and over, because after all these years it still works.

In the early 20th century, the movies used stereotype for comedy affect using stereotypes of black-Americans. If a movie wanted comedy relief, all they had to do was hire Montan Morland as secondary character. Make him a butler or side-kick, have him think he's seeing a ghost, and you had instant comedy relief. But eventually, through protest this method is no longer used. What's happened instead however, is that some white liberals have gone to the other extreme of highlighting their heroics pertaining to black racial issues, and thus ignoring other non-white racial issues.

I've found a lot out from sites like 'Asian-Nation' that are very informative. Through these type of sites, there's avenue made to find out where to petition against things like commercial clothing with demeaning pictures or slogans, and who to send protesting emails to in Hollwood.

The thing is, there's absolutely no argument against the facts. Each time the facts are brought to attention, the white media has nothing to say. There's no concrete answer as to why the American media has taken such measures to emasculate the Asian male. All they can do is hope it's not brought up enough to avoid embarrassment. All that just to say, yeah, I think stereotype needs to be fought. If not, the majority of whites in America are more than happy to coax along the jokes and stereotype.

[Lisa_from_Debary]

I have read that based on the average size of condom produced in Asian countries, there is an assumption they are ON AVERAGE...smaller then white men for example. I have also read this about German men and East Indian men...

[Kabluey]

Right or wrong, the lack of visible role models for asian men in the media is an influence in their self-image. It's easy for people who don't have a self-esteem issue to say, "don't rely on factors outside of yourself to dictate your self-image," yet we see the effects of that all the time in every race. There's a reason Jackie Robinson and Sydney Poitier are so prominent. They were among the first of their race/gender combination to reach their particular levels of excellence.

I don't think there's any question that the exclusion of Asian males in Hollywood is suspicious, if not deliberate, and I don't say that lightly. But just ask yourself whether Hollywood's medical programs are accurate reflections of the makeup of hospitals in real life. Is there a high-profile Asian male doctor? No? Isn't that a little funny?

Blacks have gradually made strides in Hollywood, and their community has rightly focused on the image and correlating the image in media with reality. It may be wrong often, and there may be quarrels about the accuracy, but the mere focus on the attempt to correlate reality with the media, and not trying to coverup any dissonance between the two, shows everyone that it's something to take into account. You don't think Hollywood is now conscious of it? Even if they either occasionally or often then brush it aside?

The same thing has happened in the last ten years in the Latino population. It's high time it occurred in the Asian population as well. There is a perception that Asians are hard-working, intelligent, etc. And that may be a great perception, but it leads to certain prejudices that have negative ramifications, such as ignoring or brushing aside Asian-Americans that might have learning disabilities, or just aren't as bright. There's also a perception that Asian-Americans are passive, particularly men. Part of overcoming these perceptions has to come from Asians themselves. They have to get confrontational, as well as controversial sometimes. For many of them it will be incredibly tough to overcome some of the ingrained mentalities and sentiments that family and American media/society have imposed on their upbringing, but I have to concede that as much as a lot of fault in terms of image lays at the hands of Hollywood, media, and politics (out of the hands of Asians), the solution has to be spearheaded with Asian men saying enough is enough, f' ER and f' Grey's Anatomy for not having any Asian men on their shows (truthfully, out of the hundreds of shows on television, Lost seems to be the only one with a non-stereotypical treatment of an Asian male, anywhere), f' the stereotype that Asians have to be doctors or engineers. I think part of the problem Asian men will have to overcome is the expectation that Asian men have to be self-reliant. Be independent, don't rely on others, bring yourself up by your bootstrap without complaining. It's admirable, it's great, but sometimes silence isn't necessary the right thing to do.

As much as it's heartwarming to see an affection for Asian males (and it is), there does seem to be disconnect in this thread as to the legitimacy of the self-esteem issue that many Asian-American men feel. It's not as trivial or superficial, I don't think, as many seem to feel. I do sense something insidious and deliberate in terms of ostracizing this race-gender combination from certain roles/positions, particularly when only Lost avoids any of the dorky/geeky/martial-artsy/domineering/passive stereotypes of Asian men.

Part of the responsibility for correcting it has to come from Asian men themselves. It would help for those who have broken the ceiling to speak out. It's not like you're going to see McDreamy or many black or Latino actors leading the charge (you shouldn't expect them to anyway). Hollywood isn't just going to change. You have to force it to remotely resemble reality -- the reality that this thread seems to be seeing in everyday life.

Great topic.

[Martin Karadagian]

I agree with what Kabluey is saying. I will say though, that there are strides being made by Asians that shouldn't be overlooked. There is media watch groups as an example that attempt to hold Hollywood accountable for Asian stereotypes.

In terms of media, I think the problem goes beyond TV and movies. I believe the publishing industry plays much the same role. We can visibly see the lack of Asian male authors at any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore. There's a website that supposedly lists 'Asian authors' that typifies the attitude towards Asian male writers. It included any authors writing about Asia or Asians, so this lead to a disproportionate number pertaining to race and gender. There was like 17 White male authors, 14 Asian female authors, 7 White female authors, and 6 Asian male authors. Included with the White male authors was an author living in Thailand who notoriously wrote books exploiting Asian women. To include such an author should be equivalent to including R. Crumb in a list of literary greats.

Because of this quenching of the Asian male viewpoint in the publishing industry, a number of Asian males have given excellent perspectives on the internet, showing literary talent through websites, blogs, and posts on Asian related boards/forums. Whether the intention was to reach non-Asians or not, the internet literature they provide I think is largely overlooked by non-Asians. So consequently what tends to happen is an Asian male will create a blog or website with an angered viewpoint. They include the valid points, but since it's tinted with anger, this tends to get the attention of many White individuals. And then we get the "Asian males are bitter" attitude. However, fortunately even in these instances, many White individuals will at times acknowledge the validity of many viewpoints.

But as far as television media itself, isn't it interesting that CNN would pick Kenneth Eng as an interviewee? It was about 3 minutes (on Youtube). The whole interview was based on his being an Asian supremacist. They would flash in caption letters, (hates Whites, hates Blacks, hates Asians), and (self proclaimed Asian supremacist) in case we couldn't figure it out on our own. They could interview a vast number or Asian writers, but they chose him to give the impression that either an Asian is a silent Model Minority who should be satisfied with being a well paid computer programmer, or , if they're an activist they would be a supremacist. And to present Asian supremacy as equivalent to White supremacy, even though White supremacy is generally generated through indoctrination and brainwashing as opposed to negative experience.