7 Liberal Myths About Health Care (military, rating, program, voted)

[Greatday]

I wonder: Are there reasons, other than Health care, that would / could cause someone to have to file for Bankruptcy?

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

I wonder: Are there reasons, other than Health care, that would / could cause someone to have to file for Bankruptcy?

Medical bills trigger half of all bankruptcies - Personal finance- msnbc.com

Costly illnesses trigger about half of all personal bankruptcies, and most of those who go bankrupt because of medical problems have health insurance, according to findings from a Harvard University study to be released Wednesday.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Medical bills trigger half of all bankruptcies - Personal finance- msnbc.com

That's not what I asked TM.

How about those IRS taxes? I represent clients where the only debt is IRS -

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

That's not what I asked TM.

How about those IRS taxes? I represent clients where the only debt is IRS -

Well.. if 50% of all bankruptcies are caused by medical bills then other 50% must be caused by other things

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Well.. if 50% of all bankruptcies are caused by medical bills then other 50% must be caused by other things

Actually TM - the Bar indicates that the 50% number is misleading - as usually the debtor is deep in debt for reasons OTHER than medical.

The 50% number actually comes from over 50% of filings INCLUDE medical related issues but that other issues, such as IRS seizures, precipitated the filings (to get the seizures / garnishments lifted). Now, lets be clear (you tend to misunderstand / misinterpret what I write); Medicals Bills ARE THE CAUSE OF A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BK'S. I am not suggesting otherwise.

But the fact is many people have not / do not, manage their finances well and get in over their heads with credit cards, auto loans, home loans - as well as unplanned medical.

OBTW; it is too bad you are not still a REALTOR - they just came out with a health insurance plan - no pre-existing condition - for as little as $70 a month - it is not major med but, it helps take care of the day to day expenses.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

It's funny.. you think you made so many smart choices.. well..watch out.. Karma is a ***** you know.. just when you think you have been so smart and so responsible YOU could very easily end up on the other side of the argument scrathing your head.. life has a way of doing that to you.. and especially when coupled with a messed up system of healthcare like we have in the U.S.

Karma, huh?. Ok...hard to argue against THAT one! LOL

Here is the brass tacks. FIRST of all, describe the system that works better than the free-market? They die with regularity in the utoptian socialzed heath care system because they have to take a number to get treated.

The American Spectator : Socialized Medicine on Display

It had already been established that filthy conditions in British hospitals have been the cause of many deaths. The Daily Telegraph wrote in 2007 that in the hospitals run by the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells National Health Service Trust staff told patients suffering from diarrhea to "go in their beds." Between 2004 and 2006, 90 patients there died from Clostridium difficile, and the disease was a factor in the death of a further 241: "Were it not for bad nursing, bad medical attention and bad administration, none of these patients need have died. Indeed, they would not have contracted C. diff. at all unless they had gone into hospital. So, after 150 years' advance of education, technology, prosperity and science, we have lost what Florence Nightingale taught [about cleanliness]."

And I don't need to see a documentary on the subject. Common sense and the efficiency of government run anything is very clear and a matter of history.

[swagger]

Hey TM - I noticed that you conveniently ignored me. Sorry, but I'm not going to let it go that easily.

You stated emphatically that health care is a RIGHT (your emphasis). You also called out the opposing side of the debate for not backing up their claims.

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

not ONE PERSON in any debate I have had about that issue has actual posted numbers to PROVE what they say..

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

It is a RIGHT. we ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE and we are GIVEN that right by our laws!!

Originally Posted by swagger

find the specific law(s) that delineates that right and cite it/them here. Plenty of people hold your position, but none of them ever provide the proof that backs it up. Buck the trend and prove what you say.

How 'bout it?

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Karma, huh?. Ok...hard to argue against THAT one! LOL

Here is the brass tacks. FIRST of all, describe the system that works better than the free-market? They die with regularity in the utoptian socialzed heath care system because they have to take a number to get treated.

The American Spectator : Socialized Medicine on Display

It had already been established that filthy conditions in British hospitals have been the cause of many deaths. The Daily Telegraph wrote in 2007 that in the hospitals run by the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells National Health Service Trust staff told patients suffering from diarrhea to "go in their beds." Between 2004 and 2006, 90 patients there died from Clostridium difficile, and the disease was a factor in the death of a further 241: "Were it not for bad nursing, bad medical attention and bad administration, none of these patients need have died. Indeed, they would not have contracted C. diff. at all unless they had gone into hospital. So, after 150 years' advance of education, technology, prosperity and science, we have lost what Florence Nightingale taught [about cleanliness]."

And I don't need to see a documentary on the subject. Common sense and the efficiency of government run anything is very clear and a matter of history.

The free-market system doesn't work in health care. Insurance companies reimburse based on "usual and customary" charges for services. People select their health care providers not based on what they charge, but because the HCP has a contract with their insurance carrier, they are conveniently located and have a "bedside manner" that clicks with the patient.

A friend's father died this winter of C. Diff. in the USA. The passage you quoted could have been written about an American hospital, probably the one my friend's father was in.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

OBTW; it is too bad you are not still a REALTOR - they just came out with a health insurance plan - no pre-existing condition - for as little as $70 a month - it is not major med but, it helps take care of the day to day expenses.

What do you mean by "day to day expenses."

[sickofnyc99]

Originally Posted by Katiana

The free-market system doesn't work in health care. Insurance companies reimburse based on "usual and customary" charges for services. People select their health care providers not based on what they charge, but because the HCP has a contract with their insurance carrier, they are conveniently located and have a "bedside manner" that clicks with the patient.

A friend's father died this winter of C. Diff. in the USA. The passage you quoted could have been written about an American hospital, probably the one my friend's father was in.

Ok lets not get crazy. I work in one of the top two cancer hospitals in the nation and I also have worked in community hospitals. No place I have ever worked at has anyone been told to my knowledge to "go in their beds".

Regardless of what the panic button pushers will have you believe the US has the most advanced health care system in the world, I've seen tech that will blow your mind. My job is 75% tech based so that aspect is important to me. Do you really think that the US gov't if it were to take over the system would be making those kinds of tech advances? The answer is no. Private companies who want to MAKE MONEY spend money and time on making their products better to "save more lives". Oh and make MORE MONEY. They develop things to sell. We are the beneficiaries. When was the last time you heard of the Gov't spending time and money to make something better that actually worked??
Free market is the only way to stay on top. And no matter what "they" tell you socialized medicine is not the answer. The "underserved" population will still be underserved, only the demographic will change. You're a 30y/o with CHF you'll be taken care of, you're a 70y/o with CHF make your plans, sorry not enough resources to go around.