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Old 05-14-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,875,090 times
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Fascism stresses nationalism above all else, so hence it is closer to the right, pure and simple. Fascism is the right gone too far, communism is the left doing the same, the two were, and still are, enemies. Being half German and having lived there more than once and studied German history, especially the nazi era, I believe I know what they stood for. Extremist ideologies are always bad when expressed in the form of a national government, the end result is always failure.
Casper
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:58 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,094,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Thanks for the decent link Ovcatto.



However it's been quickly into a Bush propagandist campaign, officially hijacked. My fault I'm sure...
Must've finally read the 14 points.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:07 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 7,978,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Link

Some thoughts:

Political
c. Czars bypass with the best of them, we are adding many.
e. Czars again

Social:
All but f. sound like the liberal agenda to me.

Military:
a. most certainly fits in Emanuel's position

Financial:
b. has been regurgitated on here often.
Fascism is a basic blending of the state with the private sector (not control, as in Communism/Socialism) but a melding so that the interests of the political class and industrial class are inseperable.

Its flowering was the period of 1880-1902 in the US, and again (even more virulently) under the Bush II regime of 2000-08.

It remains to be seen if Obama will break that dynamic.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,105 posts, read 5,970,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
I disagree, but even if true, so what?

That ideologies may share common beliefs does not make them equal.

Christians tout the supremacy of God. Does that make Christianity equivalent to Islamic extremism?


Christianity, Judism and Islam are branches of the same tree with a common belief in a single god, they all trace their origin to a common patriarch Abraham/Ibrahim, they got their basic law from same prophet Moses/Musa, recognize the teachings of Jesus/Issa and large parts of the Bible are incorporated as Surya in the Quran. The only difference is the Quran includes the teachings and revelations of a more contemporary Prophet who lived 600 years after Jesus/Issa. Islam respects Jesus/Issa but doesn't view him as the Son of God or that belief in him as a short cut to heaven. Considering Christian fundamentalists and those on Islams side believe many of the same religious basics they are equivalent like two branches on the same tree.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,105 posts, read 5,970,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
Fascism is a basic blending of the state with the private sector (not control, as in Communism/Socialism) but a melding so that the interests of the political class and industrial class are inseperable.

Its flowering was the period of 1880-1902 in the US, and again (even more virulently) under the Bush II regime of 2000-08.

It remains to be seen if Obama will break that dynamic.

German Fascism organised the private sector into the Todt Organization and guess what happened if you didn't want to work with or let Herr Dr. Todt control your business?
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:16 AM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,506,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
German Fascism organised the private sector into the Todt Organization and guess what happened if you didn't want to work with or let Herr Dr. Todt control your business?
Nazi Germany was not capitalist, however it was not the only fascist regime in Europe.

Even Milton Friedman, who was very pro-capitalist, admitted that the regimes of Mussolini and Franco and Imperial Japan were capitalist.

Re: dictatorships, there have been dictatorships of the left, right, and even the center, and not all of them have been fascist or communist per se.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:46 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,945,142 times
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First of all, and let me be clear about this, in no way shape or fashion was Bush, or any Republican for that matter a proponent of fascism, and as anyone should no I am no fan of Bush or the Republican Party. The term fascism, like socialism, is thrown around with such abandon as to lose all meaning as this debate would indicate.

Fascism was a particular political philosophy that manifested itself in different forms throughout the world in the 1930's, it is a reactionary political movement with anti-socialism and to some extent anti-anti-free market capitalist components mainly as a result of the economic turmoil of the period that provided the impetus for its development. Without a doubt, fascism was not nor has ever been a left political movement.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,688,962 times
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"I am first and foremost a socialist" Benito Mussolini 1932
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC USA
3,457 posts, read 4,641,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Fascism stresses nationalism above all else, so hence it is closer to the right, pure and simple. Fascism is the right gone too far, communism is the left doing the same, the two were, and still are, enemies. Being half German and having lived there more than once and studied German history, especially the nazi era, I believe I know what they stood for. Extremist ideologies are always bad when expressed in the form of a national government, the end result is always failure.
Casper
Nationalism has been stressed by left wing governments in the past as well so that is not a standard of right wing. The Soviets chose a patriotic theme to their involvement in WW2.

The bottom line is that the word Fascist, which is derived from the Italian fascio or bundle, preaches a collective approach, a state sanctioned society first and foremost. That means it was born of left wing ideology.

Left wing governments have long been oppressors of the people. Stalin, Mao, Castro and Hitler's state have committed more genocidal terrors than any right wing government which supports liberty and freedom rather than control.

Too many liberal media outlets have spun this as a right wing ideology when all one has to do is scratch the surface a teeny tiny bit to see that it is leftist.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:05 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,501,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
Nationalism has been stressed by left wing governments in the past as well so that is not a standard of right wing. The Soviets chose a patriotic theme to their involvement in WW2.
Yes, extreme nationalism can exist in both left and right-wing oriented societies.

Quote:
The bottom line is that the word Fascist, which is derived from the Italian fascio or bundle, preaches a collective approach, a state sanctioned society first and foremost. That means it was born of left wing ideology.
Non-sequitur. The "collective approach" you speak of has nothing to do with economics. Fascism does not call for abolition of private property. It does not promote an uprising of the proletariat against the bourgeois. Quite the opposite. The capitalist class is protected under fascism.

Quote:
Left wing governments have long been oppressors of the people. Stalin, Mao, Castro and Hitler's state have committed more genocidal terrors than any right wing government which supports liberty and freedom rather than control.
This illustrates the problem we're having here.

First, Slalin, Mao and Castro are/were communists. Hitler was not, so his name should not be included as a member of the left. On the economic scale, communism is far left, with laizzes-faire capitalism being on the far-right. Fascism falls somewhere to the right of center.

Secondly, it is libertarian government that supports liberty and freedom, not right-wing government. When describing liberty, libertarian is on the left and authoritarian on the right. By definition, right-wing government suppresses liberty.

Quote:
Too many liberal media outlets have spun this as a right wing ideology when all one has to do is scratch the surface a teeny tiny bit to see that it is leftist.
Fascism is right-wing, on both scales. It is authoritarian and capitalistic.

To get an accurate picture of any ideology, you must separate economic from social liberty. A society/ideology can be measured as left on one scale and right on the other, such as Soviet communism or modern American libertarianism.
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