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I would say that it's about being ethnically native/indigenous, or whatever is considered native. For example, if Naomi Campbell moved to the US I wouldn't call her a European American. So I'd say no.
I agree. I wouldn't necessarily refer to someone other than an ethnic Chinese as being "Chinese" just because they were born and raised in China, nor would I refer to them as Asian.
According to the popular logic on here--if Naomi Campbell was born and raised in China, then she should be referred to as "Chinese." If she later then immigrated to America, then she'd be a "Chinese American." If Eddie Murphy grew up in Russia and then later immigrated to America, then technically we'd refer to him as Russian-American. Silly, inaccurate and disengenious? Yeah I think so.
I think whether people like it or not, there is a racial/genetic variable that actually counts here.
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Great post Chicagoland, rep for that. It's a very complicated matter, and of course everyone won't agree. I think it's up to the particular individual to identify what he or she is more than the government or whoever to just tell them what they are. You're right, Charlize or any White South Africans would be viewed as White even if they came from Africa. Just as Naomi Campbell might be lumped with blacks more. It must annoy some non American blacks who come to the US, like Jamaicans (who are technically blacks from the Americas but leaving technicalities aside) to be often assumed to be AA's on sight. But of course others can't help it, because unless the Jamaican is wearing a rasta-beanie or something then people are going to assume they are African American. Just as I, as an Australian who is not of the white majority, have to put up with people making assumptions about me by looks. I don't blame them, of course, I don't mind as long as people don't assume anything before actually knowing me.
Not all African Americans are Black (e.g. White South Africans and other white Africans that have immigrated to the U.S.) and not all Blacks are African American (e.g. lots of people from the Caribbean and other non-African regions identify as Black but aren't from Africa). The two terms can be and often are used interchangeably but they're not always interchangeable.
I agree. I wouldn't necessarily refer to someone other than an ethnic Chinese as being "Chinese" just because they were born and raised in China, nor would I refer to them as Asian.
According to the popular logic on here--if Naomi Campbell was born and raised in China, then she should be referred to as "Chinese." If she later then immigrated to America, then she'd be a "Chinese American." If Eddie Murphy grew up in Russia and then later immigrated to America, then technically we'd refer to him as Russian-American. Silly, inaccurate and disengenious? Yeah I think so.
I think whether people like it or not, there is a racial/genetic variable that actually counts here.
Technically I'm Russian-American cause I was born in Russia and spent my early life there but I am so culturally Americanized that I basically just call myself American. I don't feel much of a connection to Russian culture anyway. If I did I would probably call myself Russian-American. There are a lot of Black Americans that just call themselves American because they have as much of a tie to African culture as I do to Russian. In fact, most Black people in America are much more far removed from African culture than I am from Russian culture because they weren't even born in Africa, haven't lived in Africa, and haven't even visited Africa, whereas I've done all three in regards to Russia.
If you think about it for a second, it makes sense. The main reason Black people still get called African-Americans after multiple generations of having lived here, while other ethnicities that were more recently immigrated here just get called plain old American, is because Black people look different. In many people's eyes, "American" is still "White". But how often do we call someone Irish-American or Italian-American or German-American, when their grandparents came here more recently than the African ancestors of many of our Black Americans?
African-American still gets used so heavily after so many generations of cultural integration because Black Americans go against the mental image many Americans have of "American," which is White/European/Caucasian. In many ways our culture is still very Eurocentric--even on the global scale. When many Black Americans visit other countries, they get seen by locals as African, not American.
Black Americans are just as American as any other American, so why not just call Black Americans...American? In a conversation about ancestry and heritage, I can understand using African-American, but I think it's ridiculous we use it as the "counterpart" to White on TV and in public discourse when we don't make those distinctions among White Americans anymore.
If a Chinese woman flys to Africa and has a baby ,then goes back to China with that baby, then that baby is Afro-Chinese? I find it amazing that one would believe that the very ground you are born on rearranges the DNA in your body. So if Charliese Theron never came to America she would just be another little African girl?
"The term "African American" has a cultural and historical context. It denotes and connotes, within those contexts, the legacy and descendents of African slaves in the U.S."
In whose world does that rule exist?
Africa is a place and America is a place.....has nothing to do with race. Last I knew whites could be born in Africa and become US citizens....
This is a case of a made up sociopsycho attempt to hijack and redefine a term and use it incorrectly wrong enough to claim it is now common usage and therefore valid.
The implication that all people who derive from Africa and later become US citizens are black is preposterous unless the group referenced has been clearly defined and each of the individuals race has been verified.
depends on who is doing the talking. but here or in africa the problem persists
the dutch inhabited johannesburg
for 300 years but most africans consider them trespassers.
i got white friends from south africa that have worked here for years.
they are african americans.
obama had trouble getting the AA endorsement from AA leaders, bek he is a
true african american but not a "member of the club". aka not a descendant of slaves.
btw the "club" has some strange behaviors akin to the 3rd reich, when their revered members get out of step, jessie jacksona and bill cosby, they get expelled.
If a Chinese woman flys to Africa and has a baby ,then goes back to China with that baby, then that baby is Afro-Chinese? I find it amazing that one would believe that the very ground you are born on rearranges the DNA in your body. So if Charliese Theron never came to America she would just be another little African girl?
Exellent point. And, in the case of Charliese Theron, I don't understand why people keep saying the woman is African. She's not African! Charliese Theron is a white South African NOT AFRICAN. Likewise, if an African man immigrates to Beijing China, that doesn't change the man's DNA from African to Asian.
Last edited by dorado0359; 12-24-2011 at 10:38 AM..
Reason: ...
"The term "African American" has a cultural and historical context. It denotes and connotes, within those contexts, the legacy and descendents of African slaves in the U.S."
In whose world does that rule exist?
Africa is a place and America is a place.....has nothing to do with race. Last I knew whites could be born in Africa and become US citizens....
This is a case of a made up sociopsycho attempt to hijack and redefine a term and use it incorrectly wrong enough to claim it is now common usage and therefore valid.
The implication that all people who derive from Africa and later become US citizens are black is preposterous unless the group referenced has been clearly defined and each of the individuals race has been verified.
It's far more complex than where a person was born or where they currently reside. I have already gave my opinion. And who coined the term was no other than Jesse Jackson. So he is the really the source to this and how he defined African-American does not match up with the neo-logical line of thought being displayed on here, which is I think falls a bit on cultural stupidity. So truth be told, it's really many posters on here trying to redefine what has already been defined over 20 years before this thread was made. What many people saying on here is almost like saying English is an American language, a Canadian language, a Jamaican language, an Australian language, etc. Just because the language is widely a primary language outside of Europe doesn't divert it from its origin. It remains a European language.
Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 12-24-2011 at 10:55 AM..
People just have an issue with whatever "special privileges" they think being labeled african american comes with, so they like to split hairs.
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