Only The Rich & The Welfare Poor Get Good Health Care (FBI, regime)

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by Greatday

I'm not arguing health care. I was asking you however if it would be MANDATORY for every American to take this health insurance program you prescribe merely because they pay a tax for it.

Again, the analogy is, while most Americans pay a tax for Medicare, they are not obligated to enroll in Medicare - they are not obligated to use Medicare. So, although Medicare is funded by taxation - not everyone uses it.

Likewise, and what I was trying to get you to respond to is, even though someone pays a tax for the UHC program you prescribe, would YOU, GEEREO, if you were in charge, MANDATE that everyone also enroll in your program?

Also, and this is a vital issue related to the UHC program you prescribe to - is how do you get everyone to pay into the program (tax). Right or wrong, not everyone pays taxes. Some Americans have tax free income. Some unlawfully, do not even file tax returns.

This leads to the question, if someone does not pay taxes (lawfully or unlawfully), would they be prohibited from enrolling in the UHC program you ascribe to?

These are but a couple of the 1000's and 1000's of questions / issues that would have to be dealt with

Every Tax payer will pay towards the countries UHC.
Every non tax paying American Citizen and legal Resident WILL be able to use the UHC.
ANY illegal immigrant or foreign national who is NOT a legal Resident of the USA will pay for any treatment in a UHC Hospital.
This system is now tried and tested in many countries and found to be extremely succesful and economical to operate.
60 Years of a UHC in the UK is testamant to that.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Every Tax payer will pay towards the countries UHC.

OK

Originally Posted by geeoro

Every non tax paying American Citizen and legal Resident WILL be able to use the UHC.

So you are suggesting that someone who DOES NOT contribute to a UHC in terms of $$$'s can still use it?? Then, why pay into it?

Originally Posted by geeoro

ANY illegal immigrant or foreign national who is NOT a legal Resident of the USA will pay for any treatment in a UHC Hospital.

AND, if they do not have the financial means to pay for such treatment, would they be turned away or treated? ALSO, would they be allowed to "Opt Out" of using (not paying into) - USING - the USC hospitals and USC Doctors? Will Doctors and Hospitals be allowed to "Opt Out" of taking UHC patients and Doctors and Hospitals can now do with Medicare patients?

Originally Posted by geeoro

This system is now tried and tested in many countries and found to be extremely succesful and economical to operate.
60 Years of a UHC in the UK is testamant to that.

OK - I'll accept that. But, you must also accept that the United States is MUCH larger geographically, MUCH larger in terms of population and the LAWS of the United States are different than the United Kingdom

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by Greatday

OK



So you are suggesting that someone who DOES NOT contribute to a UHC in terms of $$$'s can still use it?? Then, why pay into it?
Yes. You seem not to realise that UNIVERSAL means for every single Citizen and legal resident of the United States. Todays tax payer may be tomorrows unemployed non tax payer and todays non tax payer may be tomorrows tax payer. They are all included in the UHC.


AND, if they do not have the financial means to pay for such treatment, would they be turned away or treated? ALSO, would they be allowed to "Opt Out" of using (not paying into) - USING - the USC hospitals and USC Doctors? Will Doctors and Hospitals be allowed to "Opt Out" of taking UHC patients and Doctors and Hospitals can now do with Medicare patients?
You obviously do not understand what a UHC is all about.
ANY non tax payer will recieve emergency and stabalising treatment only.
NO ONE will opt out of a UHC but can buy private insurance if they do not want to use the UHC system.
It has been shown that a UHC reduces private premiums to such a low amount that even paying for a UHC and Private health insurance you will pay much les than you just pay for private health now.
Doctors and Hospitals will be UHC Doctors and Hospitals. Private Hospitals will run alomgside UHC Hospitals but will be independant. Doctors will work in UHC Hospitals or clinics and can also work in the Private sector meaning that their UHC salary will be their basic and the sky is the limit for any Doctor who wants mega bucks for treating patients.



OK - I'll accept that. But, you must also accept that the United States is MUCH larger geographically, MUCH larger in terms of population and the LAWS of the United States are different than the United Kingdom

Australia is a HUGE continent and had absolutely no problem setting up a UHC. Japan has a HUGE population and had no problem setting up a UHC. Iraq is now setting up a UHC with American Dollars, seems a bit silly that America is incapable of setting up a fair health service for all and uses a out of date system that is expensive and not there for everyone. UHC's work and work well. America is behind the Industrialised world in Healthcare. Is that what Americans want, a expensive elitist health system?

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Doctors and Hospitals will be UHC Doctors and Hospitals

Currently, in the United States, Doctors and Hospitals can refuse to accept Medicare.

If I am understanding you correctly (and correct me if I am misunderstanding you), under your idea of the UHC you foresee, Doctors and Hospitals CANNOT OPT OUT - Cannot refuse to take UHC patients.

IMO, by doing this, you now have the Government controlling, and directing, the business practices of physician's and health care facilities. Again, and IMO, you are at the cusp of destroying the free enterprise system that this nation was built on.

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Currently, in the United States, Doctors and Hospitals can refuse to accept Medicare.

If I am understanding you correctly (and correct me if I am misunderstanding you), under your idea of the UHC you foresee, Doctors and Hospitals CANNOT OPT OUT - Cannot refuse to take UHC patients.

IMO, by doing this, you now have the Government controlling, and directing, the business practices of physician's and health care facilities. Again, and IMO, you are at the cusp of destroying the free enterprise system that this nation was built on.

At the moment the Insurance companies decide what the Doctor can do or not do for his patient.
With a UHC there will be no more medicare or medicaide. The Doctor decides on the patients regime of health care without any interference from Govt. The Govt lays out safety procedures and puts universal guidlines into the system to protect the patient. Health care becomes exactly what is should be HEALTHCARE, not free enterprise with the patient as the merchandise. If Doctors want to get rich they can still fleece the rich but the rest of America will get Doctors who are in Medicine to help people get better not dip into their pockets.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by geeoro

At the moment the Insurance companies decide what the Doctor can do or not do for his patient.
With a UHC there will be no more medicare or medicaide. The Doctor decides on the patients regime of health care without any interference from Govt. The Govt lays out safety procedures and puts universal guidlines into the system to protect the patient. Health care becomes exactly what is should be HEALTHCARE, not free enterprise with the patient as the merchandise. If Doctors want to get rich they can still fleece the rich but the rest of America will get Doctors who are in Medicine to help people get better not dip into their pockets.

Currently, Medicare is VOLUNTARY - on the Patients side and the Health Care Providers side.

Individuals become physicians become doctors for a myriad of reasons - hopefully the biggest reason is to help people.

But, they are also business people - those that are in private practice are in business - in business to make money. And, there is nothing wrong with that.

Again, many physicians are dropping Medicare patients in increasing numbers - because of the declining reimbursements by the Government. And herein lies a big part of the issue with a UHC -

Doctors are going to be asked to maintain a business - their office - their staffs (and dealing with all the issues related to hiring staff) - their equipment - their salary and so on. If the government does not compensate doctors sufficiently, the doctor may not be able to stay in business. This is why Doctors are dropping Medicare patients.

I maintain that if, under a UHC, the Government does not provide adequate reimbursements, you will see fewer and fewer doctors - fewer doctors getting into the profession and more doctors getting out of the profession.

Allowing Doctors and Hospitals to Opt Out of a UHC scheme will be essential IMO.

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Currently, Medicare is VOLUNTARY - on the Patients side and the Health Care Providers side.

Individuals become physicians become doctors for a myriad of reasons - hopefully the biggest reason is to help people.

But, they are also business people - those that are in private practice are in business - in business to make money. And, there is nothing wrong with that.

Again, many physicians are dropping Medicare patients in increasing numbers - because of the declining reimbursements by the Government. And herein lies a big part of the issue with a UHC -

Doctors are going to be asked to maintain a business - their office - their staffs (and dealing with all the issues related to hiring staff) - their equipment - their salary and so on. If the government does not compensate doctors sufficiently, the doctor may not be able to stay in business. This is why Doctors are dropping Medicare patients.

I maintain that if, under a UHC, the Government does not provide adequate reimbursements, you will see fewer and fewer doctors - fewer doctors getting into the profession and more doctors getting out of the profession.

Allowing Doctors and Hospitals to Opt Out of a UHC scheme will be essential IMO.

Greatday it is obvious by now that you do not understand what a UHC is all about. You keep using the Private sector model for a UHC scheme.
I have explained all the facets of a UHC from the fact that medicare etc will no longer exist to the fact that any Doctor who goes into medicine to get rich can still do so.
It is pointles these posts continuing as it is now just going around in Circles.
You either are having a real tough time understanding a UHC or just don't want to understand it. Either way our conversation is now going nowhere and we will never agree. I cannot waste my time any more with this back and forth. You keep your beliefs and i'll keep mine. We are on a blog and whatever we say is NOT going to change whatever Obama really has in mind for America's health care

[Greatday]

Geeoro - here is my bottom lines:

I would support a national referendum being put before the America people on the subject

I support a VOLUNTARY enrollment program. While the taxpayer may have to pay a tax that is contributed toward a UHC scheme, I cannot in good faith, support mandatory enrollment in a UHC insurance program. I could only support a VOLUNTARY system.

I will not support a government only system. The American people should have the RIGHT to not participate in the government insurance (different than paying of a tax).

I would support a Doctors and Hospitals right to NOT TAKE UHC patients -

I would support Americans having the right to purchase insurance wherever and from whomever they want to.

Again - VOLUNTARY is the only way to go.

BTW - I fully understand the Universal Health Care schemes you propose. I fully understand how the program you describe would work.

[jmking]

How much longer can America compete globally when 1 out of 6 dollars goes to health care in one form or the other? Answer, we can't. If the US had UHC how would that change the behavior of the health insurance industry? If the US had UHC, in my circumstance, I'd still purchase private insurance. Why? Because I then would have a true choice in controlling the kind of care for myself and wife unlike what I have now at a tune of $1000 a month not counting over $5000 in copays for average run of the mill medications in a so called, competitive private sector scheme in which it is not. There would be absolutely no doubt that the monthly premium for private insurance in a country that has UHC would be a very affordable monthly premium offering many times more benefit than what most Americans receive now because they will unfortunately, for them, will have to compete with a single payer system. Under this scenario, no doubt the American voter will have more control over their health care, not a private for profit enterprise. If the Fed running the single payer system becomes worse than what the private sector botched the American people will raise holy hell and heads will roll.

Greatday, I've been around for 50 years and remember clearly the recent past when health issues was much more affordable. I also remember being young and chose not to carry insurance. I also remember not wanting any government intervention on this issue. But times have changed whither you like it or not, they have really changed drastically.

You are banking that if there was a vote many younger people and those employed by large companies will vote no on a referendum to allow UHC. Perhaps that's true now, but for how long? If, for example, company’s stop paying their share of the employee's
health insurance how would the vote go then? The vote would be for UHC. And that day is coming because I know for a fact that many small and medium sized companies are struggling and are having a very hard time providing this benefit. Many are offering their employees substandard or watered down coverage because they no longer can afford to offer this full benefit. As time goes by it will be offered less and less and the large companies are next if not already. And its going to happen quickly and in many ways was General Motors downfall.

[geeoro]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Geeoro - here is my bottom lines:

I would support a national referendum being put before the America people on the subject

I support a VOLUNTARY enrollment program. While the taxpayer may have to pay a tax that is contributed toward a UHC scheme, I cannot in good faith, support mandatory enrollment in a UHC insurance program. I could only support a VOLUNTARY system.

I will not support a government only system. The American people should have the RIGHT to not participate in the government insurance (different than paying of a tax).

I would support a Doctors and Hospitals right to NOT TAKE UHC patients -

I would support Americans having the right to purchase insurance wherever and from whomever they want to.

Again - VOLUNTARY is the only way to go.

BTW - I fully understand the Universal Health Care schemes you propose. I fully understand how the program you describe would work.

You are still using a private health doctrine for a UHC system.
Being sick is NOT voluntary and affects rich and poor alike. Voluntary UHC is NOT the way to go as been proven over and over again.
I understand that you cannot get your head around change and i will let Obama know of your displeasure at the thought of every American getting good health care.
NO you do not understand a UHC, how could you, you have absolutely no experience of using one. I, on the other hand understand a UHC and the present American System as i use them both and being a Tax Payer i whole heartedly support a UHC that i payed for by the tax payer just as our roads etc are, No one will stop you paying your outrageous premiums for restricted health cover, and every iNSURANCE COMPANY HAS RESTRICTIONS. The Bottom line is that America now wants to become a 21st century country with 21st century health cover not 1950's style insurance governed health system that countries realise is expensiveb and not efficient. If you still want Private health cover..knock yourself out and pay for it, no one will stop you. I think our conversation is now done.