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Old 06-05-2009, 10:28 AM
 
6,544 posts, read 9,040,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Obviously you failed to see that the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress the last two years of Bush's term in office. That seems to me to be just the very kind of Pelosi that liberals throw around without referring to who controlled those last two years. Admit that you were wrong when you said 8 years, please.
Well let me rephrase. Why didn't Bush reform health care using republican approaches when he had 8 years and a republican congress for the majority of his 8 years?
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:37 AM
 
6,544 posts, read 9,040,091 times
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As far as healthcare being a right.

I have no big problems with folks who view health care as a right. Just make sure you implement a health care approach that avoids long waiting list,deficit problems,doesn't cause people to over consume services and can be sustained over a long term regardless of demographic changes.

Isn't a republican approach supposed to avoid these things? That's why I was surprised that Bush didn't reform U.S health care with such an approach.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 13,999,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengeice View Post
I totally agree with that. In 7 years, post-9/11, GWB did nothing else but deal with that stupid Neocon/Israeli inspired Iraq war. That's all he did.

He never once dealt with our southern border problem. He never tried to undo anti-white racism and get rid of racist quotas built into our lives here.

Oh yeah, I forgot, the only thing Bush did besides Iraq was appoint 2 good and honest judges to the Supreme Court....not like this nitwit racist we have put up by Obama.
I give him credit for setting up Homeland Security, the judges seem to be doing fine, but there is not much else he can claim as an positive accomplishment.
Casper
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 13,999,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I see that you are like Casper, in that you weren't around in 2005 when Bush came out wanting to reform SS but was defeated in his effort by the declaration of a filibuster by Dirty Harry Reid, of the Democrat side of the Senate. He couldn't handle that filibuster so gave up. I was arounf Roy and we have had this discussion several times, interesting that you forgot. So the "threat" was all it takes with Bush, did you also forget that even Republicans did not back his idea? Is Bush so spineless that the "threat" of a fillibuster was enough for him to give up, he never even tried again.

In 2006 Bush backed the Senate bill of John McCain and Ted Kennedy to provide amnesty for all our illegals. Every Democrat in the Senate voted for that fool law and 33 Republicans voted for it so it passed with 77 votes. Well now the House didn't ever get around to even considering that piece of Pelosi. Too bad that Madame Pelosi wasn't the Speaker yet then.Are youi saying that was an accomplishment, sounds like another of his failures to me.

There for you are two of the things that you and Casper say Bush never tried to get done but was held back by Dems. I lost all respect for John McCain when he backed that Amesty Bill, how about you.
What about the other many issues Bush did Nothing about? I am not trying to mention his many failures, you mentioned two above, but what did he accomplish? They are going to build a library here in Dallas covering his time in the Whitehouse, gonna be real interesting to see how they fill all the empty space.
Have Fun,
Casper
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,477 posts, read 2,086,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Sorry you didn't survive. Personally, I thrived.

No, we didn't have the medical advances, and the cost of medical procedures surely would have risen anyway.

I still wonder how much of the current expense of medicine is added by HMOs, etc., without adding value in any form? Would the difference be large enough to fund UHC?
The cost of medical care has risen way out of proportion with other costs. New procedures should come down in price as they become more routine but, they don't.

I don't know if I would want to go back to walking around with a cast on a broken bone but, look at the difference in cost. You used to get an x-ray and then they put a cast on....cheap. Now, you get an MRI and surgery to put in pins and screws and sent home with a soft cast. The cost of the MRI alone is 2-3 times what you used to pay for the x-ray and cast....then you still have the surgery and everything that goes with that....big bucks. twelve years ago I had a client that had out patient surgery for a hernia....the bill was $35,000....how can that be possible. No competition, that's how....we don't shop around for a hospital, especially when insurance is going to pay for it any way.

Everyone seems to the insurance companies are making a killing on health insurance....they're not many have gone out of business. It's not a very good type of insurance to sell....it's not at all stable....way too many variables....other insurance products don't have that problem. Life insurance for example pays the amount you took the policy out for and only if you die. A claim for medical care could be anything and sometimes the person dies any way....doesn't that suck.

An insurance company or HMO needs to cover their costs to operate...pay their staff....some don't even have shareholders, they're mutual companies so the policyholders are more or less the owners. Do you think UHC is going to run by itself with no staff (or they'll be all volunteers). If the government administers UHC, the staff will be huge but, they'll just bid it out like they do now for Medicare or Medicaid....which means one of the big carriers will do it (like Aetna or United HealthCare).

You guys all have to stop reading those Stephen King novels and watching those TV dramas that make up stories about insurance so that there's a good plot. I was watching an old CSI the other day....the whole episode was based on the principle that the person who died, committed suicide and therefore the life insurance policy would not pay out. WRONG....there's a thing called the contestability clause in life insurance....it's two years. As long as the policy is more than two years old, the insurance company can not contest paying the death benefit for pretty much any reason, including suicide.....don't pay attention to Hollywood...lol.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,477 posts, read 2,086,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambintime View Post
Everyone in America knows that the Republicans have always been in the pockets of big corporations. This is nothing new. From the failure to close the border because big companies need cheap labor to the support of private health in here and failure to even attempt to help all americans get decent health care to rushing to the aid of wall street to give them bailouts it has been the Republicans policy to fight for capitalism and make their buddies rich.
No, it's the republicans that want to close the border....what big companies are highering illegal aliens to work for them? Get real....both parties are made up human beings, one no worse than the other.
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:14 AM
 
2,659 posts, read 2,569,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengeice View Post
No, but I heard Ron Paul, M.D. explain it, sort of. I think obviously that health care costs weren't out of control at that time. I would like to know more, and I'm surprised people don't study it.

it's just like in 1955, gee.....who did all those jobs that White Americans "don't do" today? Well, someone did and the nation ran just fine, without a Mexican and third world immigrant underclass.
At that time, lower and middle class had more money relative to today - so everything would cost a smaller proportion of a family's budget.

That would only account for part of the difference.
And to work toward a remedy I would attempt to put the lower and middle class back to where they were (the rich/ultra-rich have gotten the breaks recently) during the 50's, adjusted for inflation, naturally.
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