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Old 06-07-2009, 09:17 AM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,280,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamontnow View Post
I don't get it.

Your link to the Jerusalem Post simply goes to an individual analyst's criticism of some points in Obama's speech. There are other articles in Israeli newspapers which laud Obama's speech. I don't get the point.

Your second "source" is a link to an opinion piece written two years ago by a left-wing contributor. It only illustrates that Israel is a democratic country which allows freedom of speech. BTW, is there a Palestinian counterpart?

As to your final statement that neither side wants peace, you may have ample evidence as to Palestinians' opinions, but citing these two articles proves nothing about the majority of Israelis. Here's something that does:
Most Israelis support uprooting West Bank settler outposts: poll | Top News
I wish there were a poll of Palestinians that showed they would make the necessary changes for peace. Can anyone cite one?
What a spin doctor. The previous poster cites two articles that neither side wants peace. You dispute the fact that Israel does not want peace. You attack his cite with the same old tired attack the reporter tactic instead of what the reporter is stating.

Your own cite clearly states that (54 per cent)[Isrealies] believes...that any settlement freeze should not be absolute and construction "for the sake of natural growth" should be allowed.

You are simply trying to spin everything because you don't have the facts on your side. I am not posting any more cites. Anyone with intelligence can read all three cites and make up their own mind as to where the truth lies. I believe after reading all three articles a person would come to conclusion that Israel is not willing to give up the land that they illegally took in the interest of peace. They will only stop with new construction to entice Obama to conduct a proxy war against Iran.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:04 PM
pba
 
410 posts, read 820,147 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
I believe after reading all three articles a person would come to conclusion that Israel is not willing to give up the land that they illegally took in the interest of peace. They will only stop with new construction to entice Obama to conduct a proxy war against Iran.
That's a very interesting point to me. The land that Israel annexed in 1967 still isn't recognized by the international community as belonging to Israel, isn't that right? If that's the case then how is it different then when Iraq 'annexed' Kuwait? The world world basically went to war with Iraq over that situation but should we apply the same reasoning towards Israel? Not that I'm advocating war with them but why haven't stronger demands been made by world leaders over the years to give this land back? If we're just guilty of applying a double standard then there's no wonder how the Arab world can be so Anti-U.S.

I admit that using the wikipedia source may be a little weak but they paint a pretty bleak picture of Israel's rights to retain this land:

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So is Israel's stance that it's their land 'cuz they said so'?
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:07 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,280,543 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba View Post
That's a very interesting point to me. The land that Israel annexed in 1967 still isn't recognized by the international community as belonging to Israel, isn't that right? If that's the case then how is it different then when Iraq 'annexed' Kuwait? The world world basically went to war with Iraq over that situation but should we apply the same reasoning towards Israel? Not that I'm advocating war with them but why haven't stronger demands been made by world leaders over the years to give this land back? If we're just guilty of applying a double standard then there's no wonder how the Arab world can be so Anti-U.S.

I admit that using the wikipedia source may be a little weak but they paint a pretty bleak picture of Israel's rights to retain this land:

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So is Israel's stance that it's their land 'cuz they said so'?
reps I can't rep you again.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:38 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,725,742 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengeice View Post
This won't ever happen, since the Israelis have no notion whatsoever of sharing Jerusalem. They've built illegal settlements almost surrounding Jerusalem.

Face it, Israel doesn't want a one-state solution since it would never give Palestinians the democratic and basic human right to vote alongside Jews, and Israel doesn't want a two-state solution either since they want all of Jerusalem for their own ethno-racist state.

They might agree to some rump Palestinian state, but it won't ever be a fair deal to the Arabs. There is literally no chance that Israel will just give up illegal settlements like the West Bank suburb of Ariel to the Palestinians.

Illegal to the core, and funded by US and German taxpayers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_(city))

PS Israel will attack Iran, not the other way around.
Man, you REALLY need to let go of the hate and stress; it'll kill you one day.

You do realize that not everyone that lives in Israel is Jewish right?
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:39 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,725,742 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
The only groups that back Israel no matter what they do are neo-cons and zionist christians and neo-conservatism is all but dead.
Not true.

I am not Christian at ALL, and I'm a Libertarian, and I support Israel.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
37 posts, read 50,463 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
I agree a fair bit about the aid, it makes no sense for the US to send so much aid to Israel, especially when it is a developed country as well.

But Israel doesn't really need the aid of the US. In fact, it actually more restrains Israel than gives them license to do whatever they want. The massive US aid to Israel started in 1967 after the Six Day War. The Soviets were supporting the Arab states and the US thought it would be a good idea to have someone that could act as a proxy.

I just think that the idea that two states would lead to peace is extremely naive and also the idea that Israel is warlike just because Israelis are so f--king evil is also false (and we both know that many critics of Israel take that stance). These people are ignorant of both Israelis and Palestinians and have no idea what most of these Palestinian "liberation" movements really stand for (Hint: They support the type of country that would make Iran look like Holland) and why the Israelis are so trigger happy (Hint: Some Arabs leaders have hinted that there would be a literal Second Holocaust should they ever be successful in invading Israel).
I was thinking about what is in bold the other day. We essentially still have most of our "satellites" like the old Soviet Union had around them. It's now working against us.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:46 AM
 
3,704 posts, read 4,260,818 times
Reputation: 2234
Quote:
Originally Posted by pba View Post
That's a very interesting point to me. The land that Israel annexed in 1967 still isn't recognized by the international community as belonging to Israel, isn't that right? If that's the case then how is it different then when Iraq 'annexed' Kuwait? The world world basically went to war with Iraq over that situation but should we apply the same reasoning towards Israel? Not that I'm advocating war with them but why haven't stronger demands been made by world leaders over the years to give this land back? If we're just guilty of applying a double standard then there's no wonder how the Arab world can be so Anti-U.S.

I admit that using the wikipedia source may be a little weak but they paint a pretty bleak picture of Israel's rights to retain this land:

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So is Israel's stance that it's their land 'cuz they said so'?
First of all, many Arab states and Iran want to go to war with Israel over the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan Heights. Secondly, Israel gained those pieces of land due to those same countries (minus Iran) trying to attack Israel.

Kuwait was more or less minding its own business and Saddam invaded because he wanted to erase his war debt with Kuwait and he wanted access to Kuwaiti oil and liquid assets.

There is a fair bit of difference.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:54 AM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,280,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav Scout wife View Post
Not true.

I am not Christian at ALL, and I'm a Libertarian, and I support Israel.
Libertarians do not support foreign aid.

"Foreign aid is little more than welfare for nations -- with the same disastrous effects as domestic welfare programs."

Foreign Policy | Libertarian Party
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:57 AM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,280,543 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
First of all, many Arab states and Iran want to go to war with Israel over the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan Heights. Secondly, Israel gained those pieces of land due to those same countries (minus Iran) trying to attack Israel.

Kuwait was more or less minding its own business and Saddam invaded because he wanted to erase his war debt with Kuwait and he wanted access to Kuwaiti oil and liquid assets.

There is a fair bit of difference.
Those states did not own the land that Israel occupies. Palestinians did and Israel never gave it back.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:12 AM
 
3,704 posts, read 4,260,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Those states did not own the land that Israel occupies. Palestinians did and Israel never gave it back.
Okay, then on the flip side to the criticism of Israel, how come nobody has anything about how other countries treat Palestinians. Like Kuwait ethnically cleansing its country of Palestinians when Arafat supported Iraq's invasion or the wonderful living conditions of Palestinians in present day Jordan or how in less than a year, Jordan killed more Palestinians than Israel has in the past 40 years.
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