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Actually I will start with the very next line in article 1 section 8
"To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;"
The most common way to "counterfeit" current coin would be to duplicate images and then use a baser metal for its substance. That's what the Government does with it's sandwich coins.
But to make a one ounce coin of .999 silver with my image on it is not counterfeiting.
The most common way to "counterfeit" current coin would be to duplicate images and then use a baser metal for its substance. That's what the Government does with it's sandwich coins.
But to make a one ounce coin of .999 silver with my image on it is not counterfeiting.
It's not YOUR image that was on the coin in question - unless you look like Lady Liberty.
It's not YOUR image that was on the coin in question - unless you look like Lady Liberty.
Ken
So will the test for this counterfeit charge follow copyright infringement rationale?
It looks similar enough to fool the general public?
Besides, fooling someone is not against the law.
Like in civil cases where the plaintiff must prove damages or loss, in a criminal case the plaintiff must prove that the defendant was attempting personal gain from fraud or violation of law.
Did anyone receiving the coins in question believe they were Government issue? Care if they were Government issue? What caused that belief?
The most common way to "counterfeit" current coin would be to duplicate images and then use a baser metal for its substance. That's what the Government does with it's sandwich coins.
But to make a one ounce coin of .999 silver with my image on it is not counterfeiting.
No counterfeiting is "Made in imitation of what is genuine with the intent to defraud i.e. counterfeit money"
It says clearly that Congress has the Power "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;"
The highlighted part are the key words. Congress has the power regulate the value of money. As such random people cannot just make money and say it is $20 i.e. the liberty dollar image on pg .1 of the thread. (This is also the reason any play money that looks like real money is stamped "not legal tender.") The liberty dollar folks have violated Congress' right to determine the value of money and as such Congress has every constitutional right to punish these people as counterfeiters.
No counterfeiting is "Made in imitation of what is genuine with the intent to defraud i.e. counterfeit money"
It says clearly that Congress has the Power "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;"
The highlighted part are the key words. Congress has the power regulate the value of money. As such random people cannot just make money and say it is $20 i.e. the liberty dollar image on pg .1 of the thread. (This is also the reason any play money that looks like real money is stamped "not legal tender.") The liberty dollar folks have violated Congress' right to determine the value of money and as such Congress has every constitutional right to punish these people as counterfeiters.
Congress does not have rights it has powers.
Persons have rights.
Congress has the power regulate the value of its money, not my money.
Congress has the power regulate the value of its money, not my money.
Fine they have violated congress' "power" to regulate the value of money. Even so they have the power to regulate not only their money but also all foreign coin. Meaning they have the power to regulate the value of all coin, (because if it is not theirs it is foreign you cannot say Liberty dollars are both not US currency and not not US currency that does not work.) and as such they are acting within the scope of their constitutional powers.
They may very well be a form or protest, but their effectiveness as a protest is precluded by the the similarity of their minted coins to US treasury coins. If people don't know they are accepting Liberty dollars, they aren't protesting, they are being duped. The similarity causes confusion, and negatively impacts the integrity of the US monetary system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Or the fact that liberty dollars were designed to be very similar to those worthless US dollars threatens the integrity of the national currency system?
I think that's the point. But the idea that someone accepting the liberty dollars being duped is ridiculous. After all, they are getting something that is worth more than a dollar: a silver coin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor
Yeah, that's EXACTLY the point. It crossed the line from being a private token to being counterfit US money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak
Someone who mistakes liberty dollars for US dollars is too stupid to live.
That is just laughable. i would rather have a liberty dollar than the fake ones that the Federal Reserve deems valid. Am I too stupid to live? Liberty dollars are MORE valid forms of currency than Federal Reserve notes. They are actual silver and gold coins for goodness sake! Federal Reserve notes are just fancy IOU notes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead
You'd think that after a few thousand years of use as money, silver coins would have been grandfathered in as cash lawful money of the United States.
I think the U.S. Constitution might have a comment about this operation.
That is just laughable. i would rather have a liberty dollar than the fake ones that the Federal Reserve deems valid. Am I too stupid to live? Liberty dollars are MORE valid forms of currency than Federal Reserve notes. They are actual silver and gold coins for goodness sake! Federal Reserve notes are just fancy IOU notes.
I'd also rather than a liberty dollar, and I don't even accept cash for private transactions anymore, except for pre-1965 dimes/quarters due to 90% silver content. I only accept silver or gold bars/coins. Technically, I think this is illegal but I'm too small an operation for anyone to notice. Other than getting a strange look and a threat from a couple of folks to report me, I'm good to go.
The question was if someone mistook one for the other as a reply to the faulty assertion liberty dollars could be considered counterfeit.
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