U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Chicago Suburbs
3,191 posts, read 3,779,376 times
Reputation: 1161

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Ask, and you shall receive. Amazing how people like you don't think sh*t stinks. And yet, you relentlessly defend this organization. I'd find it funny if it weren't so damn stupid.

ACORN Federal Monies Data
It's funny how some demand the obvious explained to them and then choose to ignore regardless.
I think a certain lawyer on this thread must be in the employ of ACORN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-20-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,593 posts, read 33,579,817 times
Reputation: 51685
I think if you mail in your Census form, no one will come to your door. So to keep it out of the hands of ACORN, mail it in, timely.

I would hesitate to give ACORN or anyone else a partially completed form (e.g., just answering the number of people in your home) because I'd be afraid they'd complete the rest of the form themselves in order to ensure overall Census numbers that benefit some special interest group. This is so squirrely Chicago-type politics.

Moving Census under the White House was a scary move.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 04:35 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,320,304 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Ask, and you shall receive. Amazing how people like you don't think sh*t stinks. And yet, you relentlessly defend this organization. I'd find it funny if it weren't so damn stupid.
ACORN Federal Monies Data
Thank you for posting the information you felt supported your claims. I have used the included Federal Register citations to access the actual language that lies behind your spreadsheet. Just as was suspected earlier, every single one of the entries checked (I don't have access on a Saturday to older volumes of the FR) represents a contract let by HUD for the performance of specific work pertinent to the missions of HUD. An example would be the seven ACORN contracts from 71/174 FR 53107, all of which are for work mandated upon the HUD Secretary by the Fair Housing Act to establish local points of contact for accepting, documenting, and forwarding complaints of discriminatory housing practices, and for serving as centers for distribution of information to, and facilitation of compliance efforts by, housing providers. Many other entities around the country -- such as legal aid societies and public and private fair housing committees -- also receive HUD contracts under this program for the same and similar purposes.

I'm sure you will recall that the same webpage at the ACORN site that you accuse of lying states as follows...

ACORN has had contracts with other nonprofit organizations to perform work on projects which received federal grant support.

The contracts that ACORN receives on these projects are for delivering specific activities, all of which are tax-exempt qualified in accordance with federal grant guidelines. No payments are received until work product has been delivered.


It seems that your complaint in fact grows out of confusion between a grant (wherein the funds of the donor are used by the recipient to support the program of the recipient) and a contract (wherein the funds of the donor are used by the recipient to support the program of the donor).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 04:45 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,796,172 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Thank you for posting the information you felt supported your claims. I have used the included Federal Register citations to access the actual language that lies behind your spreadsheet. Just as was suspected earlier, every single one of the entries checked (I don't have access on a Saturday to older volumes of the FR) represents a contract let by HUD for the performance of specific work pertinent to the missions of HUD. An example would be the seven ACORN contracts from 71/174 FR 53107, all of which are for work mandated upon the HUD Secretary by the Fair Housing Act to establish local points of contact for accepting, documenting, and forwarding complaints of discriminatory housing practices, and for serving as centers for distribution of information to, and facilitation of compliance efforts by, housing providers. Many other entities around the country -- such as legal aid societies and public and private fair housing committees -- also receive HUD contracts under this program for the same and similar purposes.

I'm sure you will recall that the same webpage at the ACORN site that you accuse of lying states as follows...

ACORN has had contracts with other nonprofit organizations to perform work on projects which received federal grant support.

The contracts that ACORN receives on these projects are for delivering specific activities, all of which are tax-exempt qualified in accordance with federal grant guidelines. No payments are received until work product has been delivered.


It seems that your complaint in fact grows out of confusion between a grant (wherein the funds of the donor are used by the recipient to support the program of the recipient) and a contract (wherein the funds of the donor are used by the recipient to support the program of the donor).
Once again, you go into the weeds trying to explain away the truth behind this organization. Contracts or not, the fact remains that ACORN has indeed been in receipt of taxpayer funds. No? Just because HUD is the actual grantor does not absolve this organization of its responsibilty to the taxpayer. I'm sure you are quite aware of this, but you insist on derailing the conversation with half-page manifestos. I hope ACORN has recently given you a raise, because you sure have bent over backwards for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 05:40 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,320,304 times
Reputation: 4002
No, the relationship is the other way around. I give them money. Sort of like JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, The Ford Foundation, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Those guys probably give more than I do, though. Otherwise, no weeds. You advertised your FR citations as "proof". They are, but not for what you had proposed. ACORN's obligations are meanwhile to HUD. Your spreadsheet goes back more than a decade. If they did not meet their obligations, I'm sure that contract stream would have dried up by now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2009, 07:42 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
An entirely fact-free response. What a surprise.
Counsler, is this the best you can come up with? I hope you don't walk into court this well prepared.
My response wasn't supposed to contain facts as it was sarcasim and mocking your blind support of an obviously (IMO) shady group of orgs that reside in a former funeral parlor in N.O.. I choose to believe the former and current workers/board members who I've personally heard over some very transperent "shill" on a forum.
BTW, I thought I'd add some obvious humor for you to enjoy. Cheers!

The below excerpts appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune. They were taken from real court records.

Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, in most cases he just passes quietly away and doesn't know anything about it until the next morning?

Q: What happened then?
A: He told me, he says, "I have to kill you because you can identify me."
Q: Did he kill you?

Was it you or your brother that was killed in the war?

The youngest son, the 20-year-old, how old is he?

Q: She had three children, right?
A: Yes.
Q: How many were boys?
A: None.
Q: Were there any girls?

Were you alone or by yourself?

Q: I show you Exhibit 3 and ask you if you recognize that picture?
A: That's me.
Q: Were you present when that picture was taken?

Were you present in court this morning when you were sworn in?

Q: You say that the stairs went down to the basement?
A: Yes.
Q: And these stairs, did they go up also?

Q: Now then, Mrs. Johnson, how was your first marriage terminated?
A: By death.
Q: And by whose death was it terminated?

Q: Do you know how far pregnant you are now?
A: I'll be three months on March 12th.
Q: Apparently then, the date of conception was around January 12th?
A: Yes.
Q: What were you doing at that time?

Do you have any children or anything of that kind?

Was that the same nose you broke as a child?

Q: Mrs. Jones, do you believe you are emotionally stable?
A: I used to be.
Q: How many times have you committed suicide?

So, you were gone until you returned?

You don't know what it was, and you didn't know what it looked like, but can you describe it?

Q: Have you lived in this town all your life?
A: Not yet.

A Texas attorney, realizing he was on the verge of unleashing a stupid question, interrupted himself and said, "Your Honor, I'd like to strike the next question."

Q: Do you recall approximately the time that you examined that body of Mr. Huntington at St. Mary's Hospital?
A: It was in the evening. The autopsy started about 5:30 P.M.
Q: And Mr. Huntington was dead at the time, is that correct?
A: No, you idiot, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was performing an autopsy on him!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2009, 12:39 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 7,000,460 times
Reputation: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by grammy164 View Post
Sorry. You are correct. I listed these links to show why a person may be concerned about Acorn's involvement with the census. I could not find any verdicts against Acorn for voter fraud, but there have been many against Acorn employees. Fraud Map :: Rotten Acorn ::
I guess I see it this way--if I'm going to buy, say, insurance. I'm not going to buy it from a company that has had many employees convicted of a crime.
You see no reason for concern. I do. I guess we must agree to disagree.
I am still wating for the SINGLE court case that shows voter fraud by ACORN or anyone.

A "fraud map" means nothing, as it is not legal testimony, and is a pure fabrication, when seen against the total absence of court cases which would give it some validity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2009, 12:45 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 7,000,460 times
Reputation: 796
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Well, lets start with the $1 mil embezzlement that the creators of ACORN got caught at and had to repay. Then there's this:
SEATTLE, Washington (CNN) -- Clifton Mitchell helped register nearly 2,000 voters for the community group ACORN. But not one of them actually existed.
Clifton Mitchell filled out voter cards using fake birthdays, Social Security numbers and baby-name books.
"I regret it. I paid the price for it," he said.
Mitchell was convicted last year and spent nearly three months in prison.

From the WSJ (2006)
So, less than a week before the midterm elections, four workers from Acorn, the liberal activist group that has registered millions of voters, have been indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms to the Kansas City, Missouri, election board. But hey, who needs voter ID laws?
We wish this were an aberration, but allegations of fraud have tainted Acorn voter drives across the country. Acorn workers have been convicted in Wisconsin and Colorado, and investigations are still under way in Ohio, Tennessee and Pennsylvania.

Recent Fraud

State Year Details
AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards.
CO 2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations.
2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times.
CT 2008 The New York Post reported that ACORN submitted a voter registration card for a 7-year-old Bridgeport girl. Another 8,000 cards from the same city will be scrutinized for possible fraud.
FL 2008 Election officials in Brevard County have given prosecutors more than 23 suspect registrations from ACORN. The state's Division of Elections is also investigating complaints in Orange and Broward Counties.
2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was “singled out” among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was “the common thread” in the agency’s fraud investigations.
IN 2008 Election officials in Indiana have thrown out more than 4,000 ACORN-submitted voter registrations after finding they had identical handwriting and included the names of many deceased Indianans, and even the name of a fast food restaurant.
MI 2008 Clerks in Detroit found a "sizeable number of duplicate and fraudulent [voter] applications" from the Michigan branch of ACORN. Those applications have been turned over to the U.S. Attorney's office for investigation.
2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that “overzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters.” ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents.
MO 2008 Nearly 400 ACORN-submitted registrations in Kansas City have been rejected due to duplication or fake information.
2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 election.
2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in prison for forging signatures and submitting false information.
2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally.
MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed.
NC 2008 County elections officials have sent suspicious voter registration applications to the state Board of Elections. Many of the applications had similar or identical names, but with different addresses or dates of birth.
2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards.
NM 2008 Prosecutors are investigating more than 1,100 ACORN-submitted voter registration cards after a county clerk found them to be fraudulent. Many of the cards included duplicate names and slightly altered personal information.
2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group’s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: “It’s safe to say the forgery was widespread.”
2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was “manufacturing voters” throughout New Mexico.
NV 2009 Nevada authorities indicted ACORN on 26 counts of voter registration fraud and 13 counts of illegally compensating canvassers. ACORN provided a bonus compensation program called “Blackjack” or “21+” for any canvasser who registered more than 20 voters per shift, which is illegal under Nevada law.
2008 Nevada state authorities raided ACORN's Las Vegas headquarters as part of a task force investigation of election fraud. Fraudulent registrations included players from the Dallas Cowboys.
OH 2008 ACORN activists gave Ohio residents cash and cigarettes in exchange for filling out voter registration card, according to the New York Post. Some voters claim to have registered dozens of times, and one man says he signed up on 72 cards.
2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties.
2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called “blatantly false” forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group.
PA 2009 Seven ACORN workers in the Pittsburgh area were indicted for submitting falsified voter registration forms. Six of the seven were also indicted for registering voters under an illegal quota system.
2008 State election officials have thrown out 57,435 voter registrations, the majority of which were submitted by ACORN. The registrations were thrown out after officials found "clearly fraudulent" signatures, vacant lots listed as addresses, and other signs of fraud.
2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail.
2004 Reading’s Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was “absolutely out of hand,” and added: “Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations.” The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice.
TX 2008 In Harris County, nearly 10,000 ACORN-submitted registrations were found to be invalid, including many with clearly fraudulent addresses or other personal information.
2008 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters “The signature is not my signature. It’s not even close.” His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect.
VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.

In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally,” they wrote, “information appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with § 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia."
WA 2007 Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive.
WI 2008 At least 33,000 ACORN-submitted registrations in Milwaukee have been called into question after it was found that the organizations had been using felons as registration workers, in violation of state election rules. Two people involved in the ongoing Wisconsin voter fraud investigation have been charged with felonies.
2004 The district attorney’s office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, “an apparent violation of state law,” according to the paper.

Yep, wonderful thing that ACORN...
Shall I continue?
Yes, you're going to have to continue, because everything you've listed is fraud AGAINST ACORN by its contractors, and not SYSTEMIC VOTER FRAUD, defined as conspiracy to aid/enable unqualified persons from voting in either state or federal elections.

You do know ACORN is required by states' law to turn in ALL names it collects- even the dubious ones- and points-out said names to election officials?

Thought not.

Now, if that jive you listed has any validity to ACORN comitting systemic voter fraud (hint: it doesn't) then you will be able to supply ONE case (by verdict) which shows ACORN guilty of systemic voter fraud.

Awaiting your response.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2009, 01:46 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 7,000,460 times
Reputation: 796
Finally,

Don't know your sources for above, but they are not accurate re: Wisconsin:

Brew City Brawler: Milwaukee Police find no evidence of voter fraud conspiracy


"Milwaukee Police find no evidence of voter fraud conspiracy

The Brawler is gratified that the Milwaukee Police Department issued a report that, following in the lead of Biskupic and others, concluded that there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud conspiracy in Milwaukee in 2004"

Also,

"Fact: No criminal charges related to voter registration have ever been brought against ACORN or partner organizations. Convictions against individual former ACORN workers have been accomplished with our full cooperation, using the evidence obtained through our quality control and verification processes -- evidence which in most cases WE called to the attention of authorities."


http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2009, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 28,123,641 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by allydriver View Post
They don't sound like the right people for the job.

From the ACORN website:


ACORN: Overview
Now that sounds a lot more like the ACORN I know about. I wonder why more don't know about them. Anybody can access their website but it is not easy to find their legal address from that website. Their address, nationally is the same as the address of a group that oversees all the money that comes into ACORN and all the 270 entities that ACORN oversees. It is one real spider web when one goes there to find out anything.

I find words very cheap and they prove it on their website.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:29 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top