U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Do You Consider Scott Roeder A Hero?
Yes 16 12.80%
No 109 87.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-06-2009, 10:43 PM
 
13,831 posts, read 14,659,152 times
Reputation: 11518

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I agree, but I would also add that when people get so damned wrapped up in 'my way is the only way' type of thought, they begin to excuse the inexcusable.

I never loked at it that way and I think that is part of it as well. thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-06-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,763 posts, read 4,355,925 times
Reputation: 2060
One must first be able to admit that one has made an error. People who are unable to do that consequently do not learn from past mistakes; they tend to
keep repeating those mistakes yet continue to expect different results.

acknowledge definition | Dictionary.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,464 posts, read 20,112,307 times
Reputation: 8380
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
You likely know very little about what Tiller did, other than the buzzword abortion.

Jezebel - Tiller's Patients Speak: The Tragedy Of His Death, The Inspiration Of His Life - George tiller
* This law does not ban late-term abortions; only the partial birth procedure.[417] It does not prohibit giving a lethal injection to a preborn human and performing a partial birth abortion afterwards.[418] It does not prohibit dismemberment abortions, in which “the fetal limbs are pulled off the body in utero, sometimes while the fetus is still alive.” [419] [420]

* After this law was enacted, several abortion providers challenged it in court.[421] In April 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the law in a 5-4 vote.[422] Of the five Supreme Court justices who ruled to uphold the law, Barack Obama voted against the nomination of two of them and identified two of the others as judges he would not have nominated.[423] [424] [425] Of the four justices who voted to strike down the law, John McCain has identified all of them as judges he would not have nominated.[426]

* The day after the Supreme Court ruling was issued, 13 Democrats in the U.S. Senate and 57 in the House of Representatives introduced legislation that would overturn the ban on partial birth abortions.[427] [428] [429] [430] Barack Obama has stated that the “first thing” he would do as President is sign this bill into law.[431]

Abortion - Just Facts


United States
See also: Reasons for abortions. In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:[3]

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-te...#United_States

Last edited by momonkey; 06-07-2009 at 12:54 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 12:52 AM
 
32,480 posts, read 16,638,621 times
Reputation: 17471
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
* This law does not ban late-term abortions; only the partial birth procedure.
If your point is that the Federal law against partial birth abortions was useless legislation put together to throw a bone to the Christian Fundamentalist voting bloc, you're absolutely correct.

It is probably more germane to the discussion that Dr. Tiller operated under the Kansas statutes which state with perfect clarity that abortion after the 22nd week is allowed under one of three conditions only: Fetus not viable. Continuation of the pregnancy threatening the woman's life. Continuation of the pregnancy would saddle the woman with a severe handicap. That's it.

For all the noise about Dr. Tiller, no one could demonstrate him breaking the statutes in a court of law. Not for lack of trying, either.

Two Grand Juries were convened, and both decided against indictment. (Grand Juries notoriously tend to indict, so this is indication of a very weak case.) A zealous DA even tried to subpoena patient records en masse in a classic fishing expedition - doctor/patient privilege is apparently optional in the eyes of some. And of course there was the recent trial where Dr. Tiller was accused of 19 counts of breaking the two-doctor rule. A jury found him not guilty on all counts.

If Dr. Tiller was such a notorious criminal, one would expect it to be easy to build a waterproof case. Are the Wichita DAs really that incompetent? Or could it be there is no there there?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,464 posts, read 20,112,307 times
Reputation: 8380
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
You might have a point if we did "partial birth abortions" in the United States, but we don't.

We do. Only intact D&Es of live fetuses are prohibited. If the fetus is killed by a lethal injection or live dissection prior to the procedure being performed, it is legal.

"The Act's scienter requirements limit its reach to those physicians who carry out the intact D&E, with the intent to undertake both steps at the outset. The Act excludes most D&Es in which the doctor intends to remove the fetus in pieces from the outset."

FindLaw | Cases and Codes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,456 posts, read 12,729,415 times
Reputation: 4760
I'm not sure what any of your weirdos are trying to prove anyway. The only person who broke the law was the Christian who murdered the doctor while he attended church. Argue as much as you'd like, but that's the bottom line. You either applaud that which makes you an *******, or you do not, which makes you sane.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,464 posts, read 20,112,307 times
Reputation: 8380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
If your point is that the Federal law against partial birth abortions was useless legislation put together to throw a bone to the Christian Fundamentalist voting bloc, you're absolutely correct.

It is probably more germane to the discussion that Dr. Tiller operated under the Kansas statutes which state with perfect clarity that abortion after the 22nd week is allowed under one of three conditions only: Fetus not viable. Continuation of the pregnancy threatening the woman's life. Continuation of the pregnancy would saddle the woman with a severe handicap. That's it.

For all the noise about Dr. Tiller, no one could demonstrate him breaking the statutes in a court of law. Not for lack of trying, either.

Two Grand Juries were convened, and both decided against indictment. (Grand Juries notoriously tend to indict, so this is indication of a very weak case.) A zealous DA even tried to subpoena patient records en masse in a classic fishing expedition - doctor/patient privilege is apparently optional in the eyes of some. And of course there was the recent trial where Dr. Tiller was accused of 19 counts of breaking the two-doctor rule. A jury found him not guilty on all counts.

If Dr. Tiller was such a notorious criminal, one would expect it to be easy to build a waterproof case. Are the Wichita DAs really that incompetent? Or could it be there is no there there?


Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." ~Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham Jail," Why We Can't Wait, 1963

"Laws are only words written on paper, words that change on society's whim and are interpreted differently daily by politicians, lawyers, judges, and policemen. Anyone who believes that all laws should always be obeyed would have made a fine slave catcher. Anyone who believes that all laws are applied equally, despite race, religion, or economic status, is a fool." ~John J. Miller, And Hope to Die
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,456 posts, read 12,729,415 times
Reputation: 4760
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." ~Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham Jail," Why We Can't Wait, 1963

"Laws are only words written on paper, words that change on society's whim and are interpreted differently daily by politicians, lawyers, judges, and policemen. Anyone who believes that all laws should always be obeyed would have made a fine slave catcher. Anyone who believes that all laws are applied equally, despite race, religion, or economic status, is a fool." ~John J. Miller, And Hope to Die

Quoting MLK to defend your position in all this is pathetic and twisted. You should really be ashamed of yourself for promoting MURDER in the name of a man who advocated peace. You're really effed up, sorry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 02:01 AM
 
8,640 posts, read 7,979,636 times
Reputation: 2854
Synopsis:

Tiller the Baby Killer is dead.
Life has a chance.
Scott Roeder will go to jail for his crime.


Isn't it wierd that Roe is in Roeder's last name? I just noticed that. Hmmmmm

Last edited by dcsldcd; 06-07-2009 at 03:21 AM.. Reason: put the wrong name in the wrong place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2009, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,456 posts, read 12,729,415 times
Reputation: 4760
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd View Post
Synopsis:

Tiller the Baby Killer is dead.
Life has a chance.
Scott Roeder will go to jail for his crime.


Isn't it wierd that Roe is in Tiller's last name? I just noticed that. Hmmmmm

Wow, aren't you so savvy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top