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Well, I said it was just me. Also, I was not using that one post to oppose abortion. I was just agreeing with camping!, with whom I have had some disagareements as well. I hate to ask this, but do you have kids? Before I had mine, I had a friend who used to say "I'd kill for my kids", and I didn't understand what she meant. Now I do.
Who and what I am really isn't important. It doesn't change anything because it isn't about me. It's about all women and their rights.
I'm just going to post one more message on this topic and then I'm going to quit beating this dead horse.
1. Sorry young women but YOU do NOT determine who is or who isn't a feminist. A lot of us old women earned that title in ways that you younger women will never know or understand. I could write 10 pages on the humiliation, insults, threats, loss of income, etc. etc. we experienced. Whether you like it or not, feminism is NOT all about the right to kill your babies.
2. With several of you what comes across loud and clear is that you resent BEING a woman. Instead of celebrating and being proud of being a strong woman you have chosen the cloak of victimhood and resentment. THAT is not being a feminist. That is being a victim.
3. With a few of you what comes across loud and clear is that you are not just against the pre born, you are against children completely. That also is not being a feminist. That is just using it as a way to cover your own issues. For heaven sake DON'T have children if you feel this way. But don't let your hatred of them be an excuse for killing them for the sake of your issues.
4. And finally, one thing that most grown ups learn and many of you have not....it is NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!! Even if you can't imagine it to be true, the life of others have value too and the fact that YOU might feel sad or YOU might have temporary discomfort or YOU might have to deal with some issues is NOT a good reason to kill another person.
I am one of the older women to whom you refer and you do NOT speak for me.
I never considered myself a feminist - never thought I needed a label to define myself. I do know that I, along with other strong, intelligent women of the previous generation, fought for the right to be self-determining, which included the right to determine for myself whether or not I wanted an abortion.
And I disagree to a certain extent. Motherhood, pregnancy and being female suck for some women. For some, one or the other -- or all three -- suck big time, for others not so much. But let's not pretend that they don't suck for some women. For starts, pregnancy really sucks for women who die from it. Big time.
You are describing the human condition. I am willing to bet that even men - yes men - occasionally feel like their lives suck, too.
And it is a very sad fact that some women - an extreme minority - will die from childbirth or complications relating to it. It is also a very sad fact that some women - again an extreme minority - will die from an abortion.
If you want to argue extreme rare happenings you will have to admit that they happen across the spectrum.
I just gave a genuine and heartfelt example, a few pages back, of a pregnancy and birth that really sucked, that virtually destroyed my young life, that screwed my head up so bad I'm only now- almost twenty years later- beginning to get it back on straight.
And this was a pregnancy I chose to go through with. I didn't have to.
I could've had an abortion.
The benefit of having had this choice is that I never had to feel like a victim.
However bad things got, I had the knowledge that I chose this. And that was empowering. It was sometimes the only thing that gave me the strength to carry on.
But there's no use pretending it didn't suck. Of course it sucked.
My second pregnancy sucked too, and I was still mentally and emotionally worn out from the first one, and my second child was born very premature and with life-threatening health problems. He survived, but his life has never been easy, and probably won't ever be.
And still, people on this thread will categorically deny that pregnancy, childbirth, and motherhood could ever, ever possibly suck. Under any circumstances, for anyone, ever. The end.
This is the reason people can't really take prolifers seriously.
I mean, what about rape? Do you think it sucks to be raped?
What about incest? What about pregnancies where the fetus is hydrocyphalic? What about cases where one is trapped in an abusive relationship? What about if one has HIV or is addicted to drugs? What about if one lives in a developing nation where women are treated as chattel?
Life in general just sucks sometimes, but the potential for pregnancy can add a whole new dimension of suckiness, when one is female.
It's absurd to deny this.
Who is denying this? I don't see anyone denying this.
Point taken, but I think you get my drift, even if you don't agree with me. I have found motherhood, parenthood, whatever you want to call it, to be the most fulfilling thing I have ever done, and I have had a career as well. I'd take parenting over the career any day. I realize not everyone feels that way, but to act like it's some prison sentence is ridiculous.
For me, it would be a prison sentence.
I'm not equipped to have/deal with kids.
They're okay on my terms, but other than that....
You are describing the human condition. I am willing to bet that even men - yes men - occasionally feel like their lives suck, too.
And it is a very sad fact that some women - an extreme minority - will die from childbirth or complications relating to it. It is also a very sad fact that some women - again an extreme minority - will die from an abortion.
If you want to argue extreme rare happenings you will have to admit that they happen across the spectrum.
I don't believe that a woman has to be facing death for her to want an abortion. I think that puts the bar way too high. I do care that women have the right to make their own decisions about what risks they will and won't take. And had one of the men not declared that "motherhood, pregnancy and being a woman" does not suck, we wouldn't be talking about it.
Who is denying this? I don't see anyone denying this.
Are you kidding?
It's been blatantly denied several times in this thread.
"Womanhood, pregnancy, and motherhood do not suck." Several times, such categorical claims have been made, and they're ridiculous.
Of course they suck, under certain circumstances.
Just because one hasn't experienced those circumstances doesn't mean that one should be blind to the fact that they exist.
I'm just going to post one more message on this topic and then I'm going to quit beating this dead horse.
1. Sorry young women but YOU do NOT determine who is or who isn't a feminist."""
No, but this OLD feminist says that a woman has a right to choose abortion or not and those that think she has no choice but to follow THEIR dictates of what's right or wrong are NOT feminists!
"""A lot of us old women earned that title in ways that you younger women will never know or understand. I could write 10 pages on the humiliation, insults, threats, loss of income, etc. etc. we experienced. Whether you like it or not, feminism is NOT all about the right to kill your babies.
2. With several of you what comes across loud and clear is that you resent BEING a woman. Instead of celebrating and being proud of being a strong woman you have chosen the cloak of victimhood and resentment. THAT is not being a feminist. That is being a victim."""
Oh, the old ""be proud or be a victim claptrap""...I am not proud to be a woman because I did NOTHING to become one...where do you find pride in that??? I AM a feminist because I don't believe crowing about what sex you are. I am first a HUMAN....try it, you may loose your sexist pride!!!
3. With a few of you what comes across loud and clear is that you are not just against the pre born, you are against children completely. That also is not being a feminist.""
No , it is neither feminist nor non-feminist ...some people just don't care for children...and it's Non-feminist and sexist to think that all women should love and want children....you are no feminist if you feel that way.
That is just using it as a way to cover your own issues. For heaven sake DON'T have children if you feel this way. But don't let your hatred ''
using the word hatred where none has been expressed means you're losing the argument and know it...VERY sexist to insist women who don't want children hate them...not a feminist.
""of them be an excuse for killing them for the sake of your issues.
4. And finally, one thing that most grown ups learn and many of you have not....it is NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!! Even if you can't imagine it to be true, the life of others have value too and the fact that YOU might feel sad or YOU might have temporary discomfort or YOU might have to deal with some issues is NOT a good reason to kill another person.
Yup, the old argument about how women , if they were decent human beings and not selfish irresponsible sluts would knuckle under , accept the suffering and crank out those babies...you are no feminist.
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- occasionally feel like their lives suck, too.
