The gays have it. (Iran, Taliban, regular, politicians)

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Gsd353

There isnt two points in that. The point is that gay people CAN NOT reproduce. So whats going to happen to the human population when everyone turns that way?

Ummm... they might not be able to reproduce with each other, but they're still perfectly capable. I have friends who are a lesbian couple, and just had a beautiful baby girl through artificial insemination. As long as both genders still exist in the world, babies are always a possibility - so don't worry about extinction if everyone suddenly turns gay.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Marks

You are looking at what most people see--those folks that have sought an opportunity to capitalize on the innocent. You don't see the real Christians as many fail to do.

I am not concerned at the moment with the means by which I might be able to separate out and observe the real Christians, as opposed, I guess, to the other Christians. I am concerned with how Christianity's march from condemning personal wealth to endorsing it can be characterized as stability.

Originally Posted by Marks

And as far as, "Slavery? The role and rights of women? Hereditary rule? Dietary laws? Genocide? Capital punishment? Scientific discovery?" What about it?

I would suggest that each of those and more represents an example, not of stability, but of what some people might call waffling or flip-flopping on the important issues by this particular religion.

Originally Posted by Marks

Don't tell me your going down that "let's blame all the Christians" road are you?

I don't believe I mentioned the matter of blame at all. I suggested, and still do, an absence in at least some important areas of church policy and doctrine of the sort of stability that had been previously claimed.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by saganista

Do you think that means that there are more gays now, or that the gays that have always been around are more willing to report that, yes, they are gay?

Ding-ding-ding... and we have a winner!! That's exactly right, more people are just openly gay these days. There were plenty of gay people 50 years ago, even 1000 years ago... people just referred to them as "Eternal Bachelors", "Fancy Boys", "Old Maids", and so forth. And in old Hollywood, stars would marry or date women/men, just to keep up the appearance of being straight - think Rock Hudson, Dick Sargent, Robert Reed, and so on. They were all married or involved with women during their careers, and kept their sexuality hidden. Even Liberace claimed to be straight ( ), calling homosexuality an "abomination" at one time... here's a quote from imdb about him:

"Successfully sued the London "Daily Mirror" in 1959 after it published an article by columnist "Cassandra" which said that Liberace was "fruit-flavoured" (gay), which he strongly denied in court and insisted that homosexualty was an "abomination." He was publicly sued in 1982 by Scott Thorsin (one of his many ex-lovers) for $110 million in palimony. After his death in 1987, Thorsin reluctantly settled for $95,000." (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0508766/bio)

[Nea1]

Originally Posted by Gsd353

You are not born that way. It's a learned behavior, trait, feeling or whatever. Go to medical school for 8 years and then you can tell me about how you "feel" when you are born. Human minds dont process sexual orientation for years.

Oh so you choose to be straight?!!! Which would mean that you must be attracted to the smae sex as well, in order to make that choice.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Gsd353

You are not born that way. It's a learned behavior, trait, feeling or whatever. Go to medical school for 8 years and then you can tell me about how you "feel" when you are born. Human minds dont process sexual orientation for years.

I may not be a doctor, but I'm still capable of understanding this simple concept... if somebody is born with a certain trait, it doesn't always present AT BIRTH. Are concert pianists born playing the piano? No, but they still have that innate talent, which will show itself when the factor (piano) is introduced. I'm a professional violist, and when I started playing at age 8, it just clicked - I hardly ever practice, yet I sit ahead (in orchestra ranks) of others who practice 2-3 hours a day. But meanwhile, I could study calculus 24/7, and still wouldn't ever be a "natural". Do you see my point?? Since I haven't gone to medical school for 8 years, I'm forced to use lame-man terms...

[ShadowXOR]

Originally Posted by Gsd353

You are not born that way. It's a learned behavior, trait, feeling or whatever. Go to medical school for 8 years and then you can tell me about how you "feel" when you are born. Human minds dont process sexual orientation for years.

That is bull****. It is not something you choose.

I am straight, through and through. I could NOT choose to be gay. The thought of being with a man grosses me out. Does that mean I'm going to stop other people? Hell no. They obviously desire it, and why would I stop them? More power to them. Live your own life, I won't bother you. They don't choose and neither did I. I was born a man that loves hot women, that's just the way I am. I can't just "decide" to be gay and start making out with a guy. No way.

[mmouwse]

Originally Posted by Gsd353
I will not belittle them. I will only caution them of their choices in the after life that I belive in and support. I voice this because it is my duty as a christian to minister to them.

Sir or Madam:
Who asked you? Did I or other gays ask you for your opinion? What arrogance you have to think that you have the right to minister your religion and your beliefs to me. You and your kind maintain that there is a gay agenda and that we are trying to force change and "our ways" on you. Please, think about what you said that I quoted here and ask yourself who is forcing themselves upon who?

[mmouwse]

Originally Posted by spunky1

I understand that not everyone is a Christian, I believe you stated you were wiccan.
However let me remind you that our country was founded on Judeo/Chritian principles. Do you recall that before one testifies under oath they place their hand on the Bible, and when one is sworn into the highest office in the land they also place their hand on the Bible also?

I do believe the Bible holds an important place in our countrys history and future and if you don't accept this fact you will probably remain as discontent as you seem now.

You really have announced your historical fact and literature ignorance publicly. You need to read the constitution, bill of rights, letters and arguments of our founding fathers. Our country WAS NOT found on Judeo/Christian principles! Our founding fathers stated repeatedly and vehemently that democracy dies when mandated to by religion. It was perhaps their biggest fear.
Stop believing everything the t.v. evangelists spout and do your own research.
We learned this throughout our public school education. Or, perhaps you think these books are perverted and untrue too?
Not to mention that I think your religion's interpretation of the Bible is warped, misleading and self-serving. But... I do not knock on your door and invade your privacy nor restrict your freedom to tell you this and "save" you from your misguided beliefs nor try to teach you the error of your ways. I am perfectly happy to leave you alone to live the errors of your ways to the end of your days, as is your right in this country.
Perhaps you would consider extending the same courtesy to others.

[mmouwse]

Originally Posted by Gsd353

There isnt two points in that. The point is that gay people CAN NOT reproduce. So whats going to happen to the human population when everyone turns that way? Research shows that there are 12% more gays in 05 then in 00. If a person wants to be gay, then that is their choice. I will not belittle them. I will only caution them of their choices in the after life that I belive in and support. I voice this because it is my duty as a christian to minister to them.

mmmmmmm-mmmmm-mmmm! Nothing wrong with this lesbian's reproductive system!!
WOW! You blow me away with your statement of fear of when "everyone turns that way?"
Please post your research siting growth in the gay population.
Thank you, kind person, for pledging not to belittle us.
Who wants your caution regarding the afterlife you believe in? It is your duty as a Christian to live your life to the fullest and best of your ability to honor this most precious gift given to you.
Where does your Bible say that you are given the right to judge as God?

[mmouwse]

Originally Posted by Nea1

Why thank you!!
No one should impose their beliefs on another. Gay marriage has nothing to do with me, it will just allow them to have the same benefits of marriage, and allow them to commit to their love. It wont affect my marriage in the least. And if one of my kids were gay ( I believe gay people were born that way) then I would want them to have all the rights I do.

I agree and thank you!