The gays have it. (illegal, extremist, Sanders, independent)

[gizmo980]

Oh, but annoyingly, he's actually a successful TV producer in Los Angeles now... I see his name in credits pretty often, which always makes my skin crawl.

[Colomonter]

Originally Posted by mb919

The Right Wing Noise Machine and their mindless minions can't function without plenty of groups to be "afraid" of- it doesn't matter if it's Arabs, gays, liberals, whoever. They need to feel threatened in order to be powerful, so they create all those phantom "menaces".

Truth is- they just hate anyone who doesn't think just like they do.

The Left Wing Noise Machine and their mindless minions can't function without plenty of groups to be "afraid" of-it doesn't matter if it's Christians, republicans, conservatives, whoever. They need to feel threatened in order to be powerful, so they create all those phantom "menaces".

Truth is- they just hate anyone who doesn't think just like they do.


I am glad that I am a registered Independent and a moderate at that...I get so tired of hearing/reading the hipocracy from both the left and the right.

[spunky1]

Originally Posted by Colomonter

Im glad that I am a registered Independent and a moderate at that...I get so tired of hearing/reading the hipocracy from both the left and the right.

Well I'm glad that you are glad. . . but I get tired of the current trend of everyone who claims to be an Independent or moderate looking down or making comments on the "rabid republicans" and "left-wing nuts."
I guess it makes one feel good to call themselves moderate. . .

Atleast those on the left and right are passionate in their beliefs. In todays polarized climate I find it hard to believe that people maintain firmly in the middle.

[Colomonter]

Originally Posted by spunky1

Well I'm glad that you are glad. . . but I get tired of the current trend of everyone who claims to be an Independent or moderate looking down or making comments on the "rabid republicans" and "left-wing nuts."
I guess it makes one feel good to call themselves moderate. . .

Atleast those on the left and right are passionate in their beliefs. In todays polarized climate I find it hard to believe that people maintain firmly in the middle.

Your comments are typical of what the fringe elements of both sides feel about the moderates. Both sides would rather fight than compromise on anything.

I am extremely passionate in my beliefs....they just don't follow in lockstep with either side exclusively. I live in Vermont and we have a civil union law here that I agree with, I think we should have a national health care system, I am against the death penalty, BUT, I think the ACLU is the worst organization in the history of the universe, I believe people have the right to bear arms, I believe in supporting our military, I believe the Bush tax cuts are good for the economy overall. Obviously my beliefs don't fit within the party platform of either party.

I also realize that reality demands compromise and that for anything to be accomplished on any issue will require give and take on both sides. I predict that the next president will be the person who is best able to convince the voters that he/she is the most moderate candidate and will be able to work with congress whether they be Democrat or Republican or Independent.

[ontheroad]

In this polarized climate, it is precisely the moderate that will potentially unite this country.

Think : see-saw and balance!

Originally Posted by spunky1

. In todays polarized climate I find it hard to believe that people maintain firmly in the middle.

[spunky1]

Originally Posted by Colomonter

Your comments are typical of what the fringe elements of both sides feel about the moderates. Both sides would rather fight than compromise on anything.

I don't really spend much time contemplating how moderates feel about issues. . . And just because we are strong in our beliefs doesn't mean we would rather fight than compromise. You are assuming much.

I was simply commenting on the fact that people that consider themselves moderate like to think they are somehow above the fray, and that all others are "whackos".

I and many other "fringe" voters as you call us understand and are more than willing to compromise on certain issues.

But I guess it is comforting to view oneself as "moderate." Personally, I do not see one who is pro-gay marriage and for socialized medicine as particularly moderate. I lived in Vermont for a time (and I love the place) but I can see how living there you might be considered a moderate, when most others would consider you quite left-leaning.

[Colomonter]

Originally Posted by spunky1

I don't really spend much time contemplating how moderates feel about issues. . . And just because we are strong in our beliefs doesn't mean we would rather fight than compromise. You are assuming much.

I was simply commenting on the fact that people that consider themselves moderate like to think they are somehow above the fray, and that all others are "whackos".

I and many other "fringe" voters as you call us understand and are more than willing to compromise on certain issues.

But I guess it is comforting to view oneself as "moderate." Personally, I do not see one who is pro-gay marriage and for socialized medicine as particularly moderate. I lived in Vermont for a time (and I love the place) but I can see how living there you might be considered a moderate, when most others would consider you quite left-leaning.

Actually it is easy to assume and not get the true picture of a person in a format such as this. I certainly am not above the fray, I debate many issues within my family, workplace, etc.

If you are willing to compromise on any issues then I would not classify you as the fringe element.

You also assume too much....I am against gay marriage. I said that I agreed with Vermont's civil union law.

Socialized medicine...not exactly. I think that we can have a national health care system and still keep much of our system in place, but just make it easier for the poor AND the middle class to have access to basic health care.

I have only been in Vermont for 5 years and the previous 50 years was spent in Colorado so I hear you. I am probably looked on as a conservative here, lol. I actually listen and agree with many of the things that Glenn, Rush, and Sean say.

[spunky1]

Ok, well happy to have you join the fray!

And of course I do see the need for compromise on issues.
And although I am conservative I do stray in certain ways from such as the environment etc. I just think it isn't fair to dismiss people on the right (or left) so easily.

[mmouwse]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Ah yes, the famous "gay agenda"... do you have copies of their manual? Because my gay friends are very curious to read it - seeing as they're unaware of any nationwide agenda or plan-of-action.



You see, this is what I don't get... how exactly does it insult or bother you, if someone's doing something you consider "perverted" in their bedrooms? I don't care what ANYone does in their rooms, and believe me, straight people can be just as twisted. Actually, some are much more perverted than any homosexuals I know! And don't tell me they bring it to the public, because I don't think any of them talk about sex... just equal rights, which they wouldn't have to mention if they weren't being denied them. Anyway, sorry to get off-topic & into this old debate, but you're the one who jumps in any time the word "gay" is typed - despite the fact that we're all VERY aware of your feelings on the issue. P.S. I've actually had you on ignore for a while, just because of this issue... got tired of seeing you call my friends sick & perverted, and felt it wasn't worth arguing with you. I thought maybe you'd gotten over it, but apparently not!

Hello all! this is my first time on this thread. MY! Very interesting!Thank you for your posting gismo98. I do so much agree with you! I don't care what someone does in their own home, as long as it does not effect others adversely or hurt innocents (children, mentally challenged, etc). What 2 adults choose to do in the privacy of their own home should stay private and not be regulated by the state. Personally, I prefer NOT to know what other adults do in the privacy of their own homes and I prefer to keep the privacy of my home private. AND I don't understand why some other folks make it their business to discover/worry about/regulate/criticize etc. what other folks choose to do with their private lives. I actually have some theories about what motivates these folks to be more concerned with what their neighbor is doing than with what they themselves are doing. AND certainly, these righteous folks who are so eager to restrict the freedoms of people who do not behave according their interpretation of proper would be outraged if Muslims forced them to wear clothing and behave in a manner appropriate to Muslim laws, beliefs, customs, etc. hmmmm?? hmmmmm!
oh! As for how we all behave in public, holding hands, hugging, being demonstrative and loving; by being visible in public or wishing to marry, or asking for equal rights in all areas, such as property, medical decisions, hospital visitation, etc... Some of you might say it is "ok" and "Normal" for a man and a woman but not for homosexuals. Well, my opinion is that love is love freedom is freedom and the constitution protects us all equally. It does not protect the freedoms only of the individuals I find non-offensive or who share my religion and beliefs. It protects us ALL in all our diversity of opinions, beliefs, practices, etc. We are all Americans. These are CIVIL facts.CIVIL rights. And civil responsibilities. Let's not forget that "responsibility" comes before "right" in the dictionary and in life. We all have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, etc. Please remember that you have these precious freedoms because you are American. And ALL Americans have them. These are CIVIL RIGHTS. Marriage in our country is a CIVIL RIGHT (a contract right, if you will) and your state "licenses you in marriage" which is then recognized equally and respected by all states. Each individual has the right to have a civil ceremony or a religious ceremony or both. Different religions have/practice different ceremonial customs. AND ALL ARE FREE TO DO SO. Unless...you are gay.
Gays may not be considered family to their partner in a medical crisis, in inheritance situations, children situations, insurance needs, tax laws, marriage, divorce, employment benefits, property purchase, family squabbles,... the list goes on and on.
I will never understand why some religious folks (whether they be Christian, Muslim, or whatever) are so deeply offended by who someone loves. So, you believe within the tenants and teachings of your religion, that it is sin. Well, alright! You are ENTITLED to your belief and to live your life as you see fit. BUT our country guarantees that right to you. And guarantees the same right to others who may believe differently from you and practice differently from you. How is it productive to demand the right to control others behaviors? You wouldn't want someone outside your choice preference to control how you behave! In other words,, you CHOOSE to follow the tenants and teachings of your religion, no one FORCES you to do it. What makes you think it is right to force people to deny who they are to live as you choose for them to live? Would you have the whole world practice your religion as you interpret it? Would you like to practice a different religion because you are commanded to do it? Would you like to marry someone other than the person you love? Or be told you cannot marry them (and live together and function together and share your life with that person in all the ways we do when we marry)because someone else finds your choice offensive?
AND why do you think that gays do perverted things in their bedroom? And what do you care? THE ONLY TRUE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AS A HUMAN BEING AND GAY PEOPLE IS THE FACT THAT YOU ARE DRAWN TO MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX AND GAYS ARE DRAWN TO MEMBERS OF THE SAME SEX. NEITHER CAN HELP THEMSELVES. THEY ARE WIRED HOW THEY ARE WIRED FOR WHATEVER REASON WHICH IS STILL BEYOND ALL OF US TO KNOW FOR SURE. Everyone puts their pants on one leg at a time; everyone bleeds red; everyone has feelings, opinions, beliefs, etc. Everyone wants to live their life their own way.

[mmouwse]

Good Morning All! To GIZMO, JerZ, and ontheroad: I just want to tell you all how much I enjoyed reading your posts. Very well put, very good natured and funny, and accurate. Thank you! o...and btw...I too would love to read the "Gay Agenda Manual". I am certain it is actually written by the Christian Right Wing, who, I understand, DO have an agenda and a written one at that.
So...what is it that the gays have? That is the thread title, right? hmmmm....