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Old 06-08-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,503 posts, read 15,538,440 times
Reputation: 1836

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post

But there is no place in our military for flaunting that lifestyle.
Who's flaunting it there? You seeing any men mincing about? No, although I wouldn't be surprised in the least if any men mincing about are the straights making as*s of themselves as they make fun of gays. How's that for openness?
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:20 PM
 
297 posts, read 348,554 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
LOL I'm guessing you assume that i've never slept in those tents and showered in those shower's, don't you? You probably assume that i'm some armchair quarterback that insists on spouting my opinion on military policy with absolutely no basis in that opinion, huh? You couldn't be any more wrong.
I did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Did I dispute that homosexuality exists in the military? Absolutely not. I'll simply say this. Don't Ask, Don't Tell hurts no one. Period.
Really? It hurts no one? What about the soldier who wants to have photos of his/her partner hanging in their quarters to cling to in times of fear, stress, homesickness, etc?

A lot of people do not seem to understand that the need/desire to be able to be "open" is not about flaunting sexuality or the desire to "advertise" for potential sexual partners: It's about the right to not have to live their lives in secret simply for the benefit of those who refuse to believe that sexual orientation is a not a choice and that "lifestyle" is against their belief system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
If you want to have homosexual sex behind closed doors, so be it.
I absolutely agree. Sexual acts belong behind closed doors, regardless of the sexual orientation of those acts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
But there is no place in our military for flaunting that lifestyle. The policy is in place to protect, not to provide. Who amongst your peers needs to know that you lust after other men? What good does that do to teamwork and morale? If you don't like it, get out.
Again, nobody wants to "flaunt" anything, and homosexuality is not a "lifestyle", because it is not a choice.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:24 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,080,374 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
I think you badly underestimate our young people.

This is a bit dated but gives a very different impression from what some might expect:

PageOneQ | 73% of US Military is OK with gays serving openly

I've seen the polls. I've heard all of the arguments. And i've also served in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan with grunts of every background you can think of. What happens behind closed doors is best left undiscussed. You cannot discuss personal relationships and expect the stigma associated with men/men relationships to simply disappear. Just as it has no place in an office discussion, it has no place on the battlefield. You will not change my mind with a poll. Sorry.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:28 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,080,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equality4all View Post
i did not.


Really? It hurts no one? What about the soldier who wants to have photos of his/her partner hanging in their quarters to cling to in times of fear, stress, homesickness, etc?



a lot of people do not seem to understand that the need/desire to be able to be "open" is not about flaunting sexuality or the desire to "advertise" for potential sexual partners: It's about the right to not have to live their lives in secret simply for the benefit of those who refuse to believe that sexual orientation is a not a choice and that "lifestyle" is against their belief system.



i absolutely agree. Sexual acts belong behind closed doors, regardless of the sexual orientation of those acts.



Again, nobody wants to "flaunt" anything, and homosexuality is not a "lifestyle", because it is not a choice.
YOU may not flaunt anything, but that's because you currently can't. Have you not witnessed the homosexual openness that exists in our society now that didn't exist even 10 years ago? And for some reason you think that such openness won't blossom in the military if DADT is repealed? I disagree.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:35 PM
 
4,573 posts, read 7,486,267 times
Reputation: 2613
This is such bullsh*t. I know everyone has the right to believe what they want, but really?? The "Don't ask, don't tell" policy is unconstitutional.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:42 PM
 
297 posts, read 348,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
YOU may not flaunt anything, but that's because you currently can't.
I am not in the military. Sorry for any confusion. Still, I don't "flaunt" anything; I just live my life and try to treat others as I wish to be treated: with kindness and compassion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Have you not witnessed the homosexual openness that exists in our society now that didn't even 10 years ago?
I have, and it's refreshing. Although I myself am not "flamboyant", which is what I think most people seem to mean by the term "openness", I respect the right that other's have to express themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
And for some reason you think that such openness won't blossom in the military if DADT is repealed? I disagree.
Can I say that there would be no cases of inappropriate behavior? No. However, any sexual harrassment or behavior regulations that are already in place for heterosexual misconduct should be applied in cases of homosexual misconduct.

I also realize what you are saying. It's not going to an easy lift. But, the fact remains that military recruiting numbers are at an all time low in a very precarious time in the world.

The real question is: How much longer can we afford to turn away able bodied new recruits?

Last edited by equality4all; 06-08-2009 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:57 PM
 
16,087 posts, read 41,083,112 times
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The polls say folks are in favor of letting gay citizens serve their country. So let the people vote - majority rules, right gay marriage opponents?
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,577 posts, read 1,953,310 times
Reputation: 306
I have a strong feeling that the majority of the members in service wouldn't care. In many cases they already know and it increases the feeling of brotherhood knowing more about the guy you are serving with. These guys have to work with eachother day in and day out in the most deplorable conditions - all they care about is whether the guy beside them will take a bullet for the other guy and defend his brother.

It is also astonishing that in a time when there is a need for good quality service members, that openly gay members are not welcome or are let go just for being gay when most could care less... This has got to be not only the mostly heartless policy, but also the most illogical. Canada got rid of this nonsensical policy - thank god!
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,577 posts, read 1,953,310 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Did I dispute that homosexuality exists in the military? Absolutely not.

I'll simply say this. Don't Ask, Don't Tell hurts no one. Period. If you want to have homosexual sex behind closed doors, so be it. But there is no place in our military for flaunting that lifestyle. The policy is in place to protect, not to provide. Who amongst your peers needs to know that you lust after other men? What good does that do to teamwork and morale? If you don't like it, get out.
There is no difference between a homosexual or heterosexual lifestyle... It is the same with woman in service - should we deny them the right to serve because straight men wouldn't be able to control their 'lifestyle'

There are certain codes of conduct in the military and a persons sexuality isn't going to take control of them and force them to act irresponsibly - if it does it is not a gay or straight lifestyle thing - it is an individual irresponsibility thing.

This policy is useless, discriminatory and makes no sense.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:10 PM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,080,374 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
The polls say folks are in favor of letting gay citizens serve their country. So let the people vote - majority rules, right gay marriage opponents?
Gay folks can, and do, serve our country. As far as letting "the people vote"...i'm not sure what you mean by that. The Pentagon dictates policy, not the people, although the political element is certainly there.
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