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It was my understanding from the way it worked is that Tiller WAS the SECOND opinion and that he only took referals from another doctor for 3rd trimester to birth abortions. The primary physician would have been the first opinion and obviously be referring his patient to Dr Tiller- sometimes from states many hundreds of miles away- Dr Tiller would be the 2nd opinion. Most of the people who used the services of the clinic were not residents of Wichita. They were put up in hotels there for the procedure and then flew back home. He had paitients from states on both coast, the south and Texas. BTW this will probably hurt the tourist industry for Wichita. Not much other reason to go there than for a late term abortion unless, like me, you are from there and have family there.
OMG, what a statement. I am sure the woman brought her whole family with her and they all had a great time seeing all the sites while she was aborting. They all spent a lot of money while they were here. LOL
The only money spent was the amount given to Tiller for the abortion--$5,000. I guess the women did need to pay for the hotel stay while their cervix was opening as the seaweed expanded. They stayed in a hotel near by then went to the clinic after they had dilated so far as to deliver the dead baby. Oh, and the baby was dead since Tiller stuck a needle attached to a syringe holding poison into the baby's heart to kill it.
You can look up abortions on Youtube if you do not know how they are preformed. Late term abortions are preformed differently than early term. Early term babies can be sucked out or chopped up to get them out in pieces. Later term babies have their whole bodies delivered so it is much like giving birth to a live baby---but these babies are dead from the poison to the heart.
I can't understand how people think the baby does not suffer from the treatment. Staying ignorant is such a comfort.
The man was MURDERED...period....nice way to solve disagreements. No matter what anyone thinks about late-term abortions, the bottom line is it isn't your body;leave the decisions to the people involved and God (we do not do the judging or have I missed the news bulletin). Also what about Dr. Tiller's wife and children....Do they deserve having their husband/father shot to death? How have they hurt or offended anyone. Also how many pro-choice advocates have killed their anti-abortion counterparts?
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA
The man was MURDERED...period....nice way to solve disagreements. No matter what anyone thinks about late-term abortions, the bottom line is it isn't your body;leave the decisions to the people involved and God (we do not do the judging or have I missed the news bulletin). Also what about Dr. Tiller's wife and children....Do they deserve having their husband/father shot to death? How have they hurt or offended anyone. Also how many pro-choice advocates have killed their anti-abortion counterparts?
none. the lefties are much more likely to kill someone over a whale, or a bird.
"Personally"? feelings aside, ya know? Have you ever been involved in any way in a murder trial? Are you aware of the Kopp case? Murder cases are absolutely NOT "Personally feelings aside, ya know." You're not going to find more personal feelings in any kind of criminal case than a murder case.
Perhaps you are looking too hard into my phrasing. The "personal feelings aside" comment was made because I was stating a pure and utter fact in response to the statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd
The bottom line is some of us can celebrate the opportunity for life while others mourn the lost opportunity for death
It has nothing to do with the case or murder in general (as emotions are indeed involved in every aspect). I was just taking a more stolid approach to the scenario. Which, my stolid approach is that the entire Tiller case boils down to "a man has been murdered and another man will stand trial for that murder". Is that not factual?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13
As for this statement by you:
"((And the "terrorist" malarkey is thrown around by both sides like monkeys with dung. It only serves to cause an emotional response... which appears to be quite effective))"
"terrorist malarkey"???? "like monkeys with dung"?????
IMO, that is a very immature attitude and statement. And do you supposed that throwing out words like "terrorist malarkey" and "monkeys with dung" is likely to cause an EMOTIONAL RESPONSE???
Have you ever done any research regarding the violent anti-choice organizations in this country? Have you done any research regarding who is considered to be a "terrorist" by the U.S. TODAY, after 9/11? Actually, the violent anti-choice people have been terrorists long before 9/11. What do you consider the bombing of women's clinics to be? What about killing doctors who provide reproductive services for women? Just two examples.
You're also taking this statement a little too seriously. The reference was in regards to previous posts arguing over who is and isn't a terrorist by definition. T'wasn't making jest of the actual situation.. just merely poking a little humor at other posts on this thread (and other threads as well).
The fact that people are violent in regards to abortion is a very serious problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13
Bottom line, I just find your making light of such serious issues in your post offensive.
The issue in itself is very serious. A man was murdered for nothing. The issue in itself is very sad. Doesn't matter what side of the abortion issue you, me, or anyone else is on. If somebody does not like what is legal and what is not legal, then that person should work on changing the law.
There is no excuse for what Roeder did. He is a cowardice individual to have murdered a law abiding citizen for nothing more than that person violated his beliefs.
My heart and condolences go out to Tiller's family and friends.
you are for abortion, correct? hence, pro-abortion. live it, love it, learn it. the remaining 'choice' - i.e., not killing the fetus, doesn't really rock your boat too much.
No.. I'm not for Abortion!! I am for someone making that choice FOR THEMSELVES.. I personally would NEVER HAVE AN ABORTION. HOWEVER, i would NEVER say that I or anyone else has the right to make that choice for someone else.
If anyone asks me I would tell them about the alternatives and about living with the idea or the potential guilt they may feel.. BUT I would tell them that THEY had to make the choice that THEY could live with.
It's not for me to say what someone should or shouldn't do in regards to that.
SO I am completely offended by the ignorant "pro abortion" statement because I am NOT and never HAVE encouraged or supported abortion. I only support the choice for someone to decide that for themselves.
Until the wing nuts understand the difference then there can be no real conversation on the topic.
By the same token.. and by your same logic I guess I can say YOU are PRO MURDER? Because obviously you think it's okay that this Dr. was murdered???? Give me a break. It's completely hypocritical of any anti -abortion proponent to stand there and talk about how sacred life is, but then take a gun and shoot someone?? It's the same silly argument that the freaking muslim extremists use .. justifying their poor behavior by inciting "god" and "holy" into their "war". It''s disgusting.
Well in terms of late term abortions - i'm glad the clinic is closed! I don't like the idea of a late term abortion as the fetus really is starting to take a life of its own and to end its life at this stage is cruelty... if the baby can be taken out of the womb and survive than i'm all for that - either that or the abortion should be denied.
Having said that, the guy who killed Dr. Tiller is worse than Dr. Tiller because he killed a fully developed human being that was fully conscious of his existence and had a lifetime of experience! The same can not be said for the fetuses he aborted. As terrible as abortion is - i just don't think it is a parallel argument and it is outrageous that people think there is justification to the man's death - they should be ashamed.
Clearly you have not been paying attention or done any reading on WHY people have late term abortions. Saying "late term abortions are bad" isn't saying anything unless you know the reasons, wouldn't you say?
I cannot respond to stupid questions. Do you have a different one?
I do not care on oa about tiller or how he met his end. He chose for others and someone chose for him.
You are quite right. How ironic.
I live in Wichita. I had the misfortune of being in a restaurant a few weeks before Tiller was killed. (Remember during this time, Tiller's trial had been held to prove he gave abortions that were not necessary for the mother's life.) The two couples sat down behind me. One woman must have known Tiller personally---not sure how---maybe one of his clinic workers. I overheard her say, "George (Tiller) could be retired and skiing everyday but he said he won't let anyone tell him what he can and cannot do."
As I see it we live in a very selfish society. First we have people who say, "I will have sex even though I don't want to get pregnant, no one can tell me what I can do and cannot do." Then when the couple gets pregnant with an unwanted or an inconvenient baby or even one who has a defect (and that can be its not the gender they wanted) they say, "I will go get an abortion, no one can tell me what I can and cannot do"---as in family, etc.) Then they go to an abortionist who says, "I can do all the abortions I want, even up to the time the baby is naturally born, no one can tell me what I can and cannot do."
Then we have the man who thought---"I will kill Tiller, no one can tell me what I can and cannot do." We have come full circle and if that is not ironic I don't know what is.
I live in Wichita. I had the misfortune of being in a restaurant a few weeks before Tiller was killed. (Remember during this time, Tiller's trial had been held to prove he gave abortions that were not necessary for the mother's life.) The two couples sat down behind me. One woman must have known Tiller personally---not sure how---maybe one of his clinic workers. I overheard her say, "George (Tiller) could be retired and skiing everyday but he said he won't let anyone tell him what he can and cannot do."
As I see it we live in a very selfish society. First we have people who say, "I will have sex even though I don't want to get pregnant, no one can tell me what I can do and cannot do." Then when the couple gets pregnant with an unwanted or an inconvenient baby or even one who has a defect (and that can be its not the gender they wanted) they say, "I will go get an abortion, no one can tell me what I can and cannot do"---as in family, etc.) Then they go to an abortionist who says, "I can do all the abortions I want, even up to the time the baby is naturally born, no one can tell me what I can and cannot do."
Then we have the man who thought---"I will kill Tiller, no one can tell me what I can and cannot do." We have come full circle and if that is not ironic I don't know what is.
So.. by your summation Tiller is wrong in the "I will do what I want to do and no one can tell me what I can and can't do".. and then going and doing what you feel is wrong for him to do..
So then the murderer is also "doing what he wants to do".. and , as you clearly feel.. that is wrong
So .. in your world two wrongs make a right?
it's hypocritical...
AND.. because murder is ILLEGAL in our society and interferes with someone else's FREE WILL .. and it is CLEARLY DEFINED AS WRONG by society, then the man who killed Tiller is completely wrong.
However, abortion is a matter of your INDIVIDUAL belief system and NOT an absolute in our society. It is NOT ILLEGAL to have or give an abortion.
People have abortions for any number of reasons.. of which are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS nor is it mine. THAT is something they will have to answer for in the afterlife with whatever GOd or diety they believe in.
Who are YOU to judge anybody's circumstances or situation? Do you have JESUS or GOD stamped across your forehead?? Because ONLY GOD can judge (and in my belief system he doesn't even do that.. .. too complicated to get into in this post and off topic).
Whether your pro-choice or pro-life Tiller's murder should NOT be condoned by supporting it or the killer that did it. It makes YOU a hypocrit and no better than the one you so harshly judge.
Where did I say two wrongs make a right? I thought I was making the point all wrongs do not make a right. People will do as they want to do---whether it is right or wrong---they want to do what they want to do. Not for us to judge unless you have a conscience. Oh, and the people on Roeder's jury will need to make a judgement. Unless you think they cannot judge either, then we have a stalemate.
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