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Old 06-12-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Washington state
7,208 posts, read 8,387,692 times
Reputation: 1892

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Wow.

Name me one...just one, black senator, congressman or governor.

GOP=all white party.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:50 PM
 
4,657 posts, read 7,799,911 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinalsay View Post
so is lewis county washington. you know what they say about people who live in glass houses right?
HE shoots; he scores!

Rep point to you.


Von Bronn believed that 9/11 was an inside job by Bush and co; this is a belief only held by the extreme left. No conservatives believe that Bush orchestrated 9/11.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Washington state
7,208 posts, read 8,387,692 times
Reputation: 1892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
HE shoots; he scores!

Rep point to you.


Von Bronn believed that 9/11 was an inside job by Bush and co; this is a belief only held by the extreme left. No conservatives believe that Bush orchestrated 9/11.

von Brunn was a FReeper...and his fellow FReepers loved him..

Free Republic Writings of James Von Brunn Available Here
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
8,287 posts, read 7,535,987 times
Reputation: 3650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
HE shoots; he scores!

Rep point to you.


Von Bronn believed that 9/11 was an inside job by Bush and co; this is a belief only held by the extreme left. No conservatives believe that Bush orchestrated 9/11.
VB believed that based on his belief that Jews control the U.S. government.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:53 PM
 
4,657 posts, read 7,799,911 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upton View Post
von Brunn was a FReeper...and his fellow FReepers loved him..

Free Republic Writings of James Von Brunn Available Here
Intellectual honesty challenge:

Do you, Upton, believe that 9/11 was an inside job, orchestrated by Bush and the neocons? Yes or No?
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:54 PM
 
40,171 posts, read 24,410,768 times
Reputation: 12677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k View Post
Based on these three definitions, I don't see how you can associate Fascism or nationalism with right wing policies. Some right wing individuals are nationalists, but so are some on the left wing. And actually, since the status quo in the United States is small-government democracy and individual liberty, the conservative or 'reactionary' position is to maintain that or to stay the course, where the left wing or 'liberal' position would be to pursue any means necessary to enact change, including but not limited to big government intervention. Indeed, fascism shares far more in common with what we associate today as modern causes of the Democratic party.

First, Fascists believe that the government is best suited to right social injustice, fix economic problems, maintain heavy handed law and order, etc. Modern 'true' conservatives reject all of these tenants. Second, we come to the problem of nationalism, which of course is the hallmark of Fascism, but Fascist nationalism and modern conservative (which is truly more a form of classical liberalism) nationalism are very, very different. Fascism first and foremost is a collectivist ideology. To a fascist, nationalism implies love for the country as a whole, that is, even (and often especially) at the expense of individualism (and typically promotes one group or race as the 'best' and that others should strive to be like them). American conservative nationalism is a different animal entirely, and while it shares elements of national excpetionalism, it stresses a commitment to individual freedom and liberty as separating and elevating the United States above foreign nations. Also, extreme (statist) nationalism is trait shared by many communist countries.
North Korea:


China:


Soviet Russia:

YouTube - soviet army parade


YouTube - Soviet National Anthem. Red Square (1987)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that todays Democrats are fascists, but to say that American conservatives have any more in common with Fascism than American liberals is ridiculous. Nationalism isn't unique to either political philosophy.
I've been down this road before. There is another thread on the forum about socialism and fascism. I haven't time to find it. Fascism is generally considered by historians and social scientists to be a right-wing ideology even though it integrates left-wing ideas. The primary reason is the nationalism that fascism espouses. Nationalism is primarily a conservative idea. It's not just about patriotism. It goes beyond mere pride and loyalty to one's country. The other factor in fascism is the concept of racial purity. While certainly there are some organizations that fall under the left-wing umbralla who support "racial purity", there are actually differences between the rationales of that concept between the right and left that clarify the political origins. A bad idea, but arrived at from different directions.

Mr Von Brunn's politics were complicated and in some cases contradictory. He doesn't reflect mainstream conservative or Republican perspectives. But his association with the Aryan Brotherhood, and the things he wrote, the way he even defined socialism ("Western socialism"--he made a distinction between socialism and his version of socialism) are indicative of reactionary, not progressive politics.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Washington state
7,208 posts, read 8,387,692 times
Reputation: 1892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonrise View Post
Intellectual honesty challenge:

Do you, Upton, believe that 9/11 was an inside job, orchestrated by Bush and the neocons? Yes or No?

Personally no.

Now it's your turn...if von Brunn was such a leftist why was he posting anti Obama BS at the Free Republic?
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:56 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 12,025,384 times
Reputation: 2798
Given that both sides are able to state reasons why he is to the right and why he is to the left, it's pretty clear that he's a centrist nutjob...

Clearly nobody wants to claim him, so this very debate shows that he is not representative of the people involved in this discussion from either the right or the left, so be reasonable and understand that he is a criminal with no support on this thread from either side and move on. Trying to use him to label either side is pretty ridiculous when the other side is also calling him a criminal and saying he must be like you.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,043 posts, read 11,609,111 times
Reputation: 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upton View Post
Name me one...just one, black senator, congressman or governor.

GOP=all white party.
I don't tally races when looking at people as I'm not racist. You do?
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
8,287 posts, read 7,535,987 times
Reputation: 3650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upton View Post
von Brunn was a FReeper...and his fellow FReepers loved him..

Free Republic Writings of James Von Brunn Available Here
Interesting. I may have to rethink by argument that he isn't far-right. Hmmm...
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