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Old 06-17-2009, 07:11 PM
 
5,477 posts, read 6,907,112 times
Reputation: 4286

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Did you just say that I will need to pay nearly $400 of my $1000 SS check each month for Medicare. I think I would rather take my chances with some insurance company, if one would insure a 76 year old man. I guess we old people will just have to lie on our beds until we finally die from whatever cause since you are proclaiming that we will have to starve to death sooner or later anyway.
The exact amount of the premiums increases and tax increases have not yet been anounced by the administration, nor have any of the propsed bills given even a ballpark estimate of their cost.

I haven't made any comments about "starving to death", however, the cost of dying (health care expenses derived in the last 6 months of a person's life) is something that is being looked at intensely as an avenue in which to save money.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:02 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,014 posts, read 102,621,396 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by fopt65 View Post
The exact amount of the premiums increases and tax increases have not yet been anounced by the administration, nor have any of the propsed bills given even a ballpark estimate of their cost.

I haven't made any comments about "starving to death", however, the cost of dying (health care expenses derived in the last 6 months of a person's life) is something that is being looked at intensely as an avenue in which to save money.
What do you propose to do? Shoot them? Of course, more money is spent on health care in the last six months of a person's life (usually). People are usually sicker the last six months of their lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav Scout wife View Post
My husband and I both WERE enlisted, not currently. I know ALL about Tri-Care and their BS, thanks.

That's why I am against socialized health care.

I am sick and tired of some pencil pusher making the decisions about MY health. That should be up to me and my Dr, and not a bunch of bureaucrats.

Oh, as for who pays for our medical care? We do, uninsured out of pocket. We have a family Dr. (he's my cousin, so when I say family, I mean family, lol!) that charges us reasonable rates (not $300/visit for 10 mins of actual Dr. time), and we have another family member that is a dentist for our oral care.

Thank goodness we have been lucky enough not to have serious medical problems, but if we do, we will cross that bridge when we get there.

We choose not to have insurance, since it was costing us more than we were using it. We were paying $300/month for all 3 of us, and it was only taking off $5/script for my 2 scripts, and $50/script for our DD's script. What sense does it make to pay $300/month to save only $60?! Not to mention, our co-pay (for Dr. visits) was $30, and we only went to the Dr. once every 3 months.

Instead of letting the government run healthcare, why not take a page out of the law books, literally. One of my best girl friends husband is a lawyer, and the area he lives in requires a certain number of hours of pro-bono work yearly. Why can't Dr.'s do that was well? One reason why people have such stupid expensive medical bills, is due to the fact they aren't getting preventative care in the beginning (due to cost, time, etc...). If we could ask Dr.'s (part of the AMA req's or something?) to donate a few hours a week (maybe Sat mornings?) to basic care, and prevention, I think that would make a HUGE difference in the long run.
I think a lot of people don't understand what "preventive care" actually is. The reality is there is very little can be done to prevent a lot of the illnesses that come with aging. A friend and I were discussing recently how little we used our insurance when we were younger, but now that we are in our 50s-60s, we use it a lot and wouldn't want to be without it. I am (hopefully) preventing a stroke by taking blood pressure medication; and hopefully preventing a heart attack by take anti-cholesterol drugs. We prevent illness in children by immunizing them. All this is within the purvue of traditional health care. I do not think poor people should be restricted to going to docs doing pro-bono work on Saturday mornings. To compare health care to legal work is comparing apples to oranges. Health care isn't like getting a divorce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Providing health care, in the USA, is monopolized and restricted to licensed individuals.
In many other nations (allegedly less blessed with liberty), an adult can purchase medicine without buying permission from a physician (prescription).

If you believe that the supply of licensed medical care givers is not finite, I submit that you may need to see one of them for an examination, ASAP.
Your grasp of reality is a bit dodgy.

On the other hand, you may suffer from bureaucratic illiteracy, from years of indoctrination.

The growing numbers of "uninsured" lacking access to medical care was not evident in pre-Socialist America (before 1935).

If one will recall, there were charity hospitals and clinics, as well as private sector physicians, nurses, etc.

You might investigate into why most folks could AFFORD to pay their medical bills, without the need for an insurance program, let alone prepayment.

You might inquire into the transformation of the physician / nurse office into the bloated administrative records keeping "medical practice".

You might look into the rising burdens of socialist taxation laid upon the productive for the benefit of the parasites in government bureaucracy, as well as the beneficiaries who were paid "entitlements".

You might examine the insane malpractice insurance premiums, driven by a tort system that is out of control.

You might read the law regarding the nature of the license to practice medicine (and commit manslaughter without criminal liability).

Personally, I prefer UNIVERSAL health care - where anyone can give care to another, without fear of prosecution. And where any responsible adult can purchase any medical treatment or material without prior permission.
And that education and training for medical care is open to all, and not restricted to a finite number of openings in AMA blessed colleges.
And that demonstrating one's ability via examination, open to all, is sufficient to bestow credentials for that ability.

In short, I prefer free choice over no choice; charity over compulsion.
Since you got angry the last time I snipped one of your posts, I'll leave the whole thing up there with the part I want to comment on in bold. It is simplly untrue! Elderly poverty before medicare and SS was much higher. People were going without care, despite your glowing description of charity hospitals and clinics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
But you can always change insurance companies... Unless the monopoly known as the government runs it... Then you just accept what they tell you. When the government says lie down you lay there and don't ask questions.
If you work for a small to medium sized company, you are offered ONE choice, take it or leave it. Individual insurance is pricey, esp. for anyone with a pre-existing condition, which is most of us after age 50.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:14 PM
 
1,650 posts, read 3,454,683 times
Reputation: 1125
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well then have the government mandate that employers offer health insurance. Gov't run programs don't work.
Well said. Government programs don't work. I think there should be a government mandate requiring employers to offer health insurance. There should also be a government mandate requiring companies to offer health insurance to those of us that have preexisting conditions like asthma. Just how is the government going to pay for this anyway? Us Gen Yers are already stuck paying for the stimulus bill, bailouts, Obama budget, and now universal health care.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:21 PM
 
4,510 posts, read 4,115,696 times
Reputation: 1501
We should have a basic 'free' (taxpayer supported) healthcare system, with optional more expensive treatments available for those who choose to pay for them.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:29 PM
 
15,065 posts, read 19,707,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
We should have a basic 'free' (taxpayer supported) healthcare system, with optional more expensive treatments available for those who choose to pay for them.
Republicans will tell you that that's "communism"

Why should I pay $100 for a doctor to look at a bite that my son had for 3 minutes and write down a cream for him to use.

Yes, it was $100 for that.
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:11 PM
 
4,510 posts, read 4,115,696 times
Reputation: 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Republicans will tell you that that's "communism"

Why should I pay $100 for a doctor to look at a bite that my son had for 3 minutes and write down a cream for him to use.

Yes, it was $100 for that.
I would say free basic, optional treatment to remove the scar.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,209,153 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Why should I pay $100 for a doctor to look at a bite that my son had for 3 minutes and write down a cream for him to use.

Yes, it was $100 for that.
I would have to seriously ask why?

Now, I fully understand that availability to medical services varies from regions of the country but in my area, you could have taken your son to one of our local quick care centers - or the new care centers / clinics in many of our larger Pharmacies and Department stores, and for $35 / $40, gotten the necessary exam, lab tests (if needed) and, again if indicated, a prescription (which may have only cost $4.00.
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:50 AM
 
44 posts, read 69,610 times
Reputation: 61
republicans@

Why dont you consider health care a basic right for everyone?

However in Germany the health care system is declining too .... and in general im not a friend of the mainstrem medicine, because pharma- lobbies (yes the criminal chemistry companies like Bayer, Syngenta, DuPont, Monsanto) pressure the hospitals very strong
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:50 AM
 
5,477 posts, read 6,907,112 times
Reputation: 4286
[quote=Katiana;9345931]What do you propose to do? Shoot them? Of course, more money is spent on health care in the last six months of a person's life (usually). People are usually sicker the last six months of their lives.

I'm not proposing any shooting thanks. Here is a snippet of the conversation President Obama had talking with the NY TImes about the cost associated with his dying grandmother (sorry, I didn't have the original NY Times link..this link showed up on a google search). Philosophical changes will have to be made about the maintain life at all costs mentality which we currently have if we want to fund universal access without completetly bankrupting the economy. Will we hear this during the campaigning for his health plan, or will it be glossed over until after the bill is passed? Will we hear his specific recommendations for what will be covered and what won't? I'm guessing we won't. I hope I'm wrong and he'll be upfront about everything about the plan, good and bad. We deserve the truth.

OBAMA ON END-OF-LIFE HEALTH CARE | The Revolutionary Review by Jonas Clark
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:34 AM
 
3,568 posts, read 3,279,432 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebelt1234 View Post
Well said. Government programs don't work. I think there should be a government mandate requiring employers to offer health insurance. There should also be a government mandate requiring companies to offer health insurance to those of us that have preexisting conditions like asthma. Just how is the government going to pay for this anyway? Us Gen Yers are already stuck paying for the stimulus bill, bailouts, Obama budget, and now universal health care.
I agree that government programs don't work, or they don't work very well. Massachusetts recently adopted a universal coverage law--with mandates and penalties. Three years into it the system is already broke.

However, why should employers provide health insurance to their empolyees? They don't provide automobile insurance or homeowners or renters' insurance. Why medical insurance?

The practice of providing health insurance through the work place is a rather recent phenomenom. It arose after WWII when there was national wage and price controls. Employers got around those controls on wages by offering employees health insurance as a way to attract talent. There is nothing sacrosanct about the practice.

I think health insurance should be de-coupled from employment and be treated just like car insurance. Your premiums would be based on your record of usage and actuarial realities. The result would be the opposite of what happens with car insurance where younger drivers pay higher premiums. Young healthy people would pay lower premiums because they don't need treatment as much as older people. On the other hand the older people would pay higher premiums because they do account for heavier usage. How would they pay for those premiums? Health savings accounts. Young people would be encouraged (through tax incentives) to put money into health savings accounts that would earn interest and which they could access tax free as they aged to pay their premiums.

Like car insurance, some people can't pay the premiums because they are high risk. Here in Maine we have a high risk pool that car insurers can't refuse to insure as a cost of doing business in the state. I believe the state may subsidize part of the premium for those in the pool. We could do the same for low income people and those with costly pre-existing conditions.

In other words there are ways to solve our health insurance problems without surrendering control of one-sixth of the U.S. economy to the government to be run by boobs like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
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