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Old 06-14-2009, 03:22 PM
Status: "Elect a clown? Expect a circus!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,160 posts, read 40,950,018 times
Reputation: 29871

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
That is because violence is down 95%, the country is booming, schools are open, hospitals are open, infrastructure is improving and most importantly, we succeeded in our mission - that's why you don't hear about it. It just doesn't fit the MSM leftist agenda.

Succeeded in WHAT? Wasting large amounts of blood and $$$? For WHAT benefit to the US? Improving infrastructure while you NeoConfuseds cry SOCIALISM! if anyone dare mention government improving OUR infrastructure?


Just WHAT mission did we succeed at that was both tasked by the Constitution and of benefit to the US?
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:30 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,634 posts, read 74,577,828 times
Reputation: 48121
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
If you think a long war is expected in Iraq, just wait and see how long the one in Afghanistan takes as the goals there are even more obscure and undefined as those in Iraq.

Admittedly, it breaks my heart to think that the anti-war movement wasn't as much an anti-war movement as it was an anti-Bush movement, as indicated by Democrats support for our Afghanistan operations and dull acceptance of Iraq.
DOD is an anaconda wrapped around DC, bill clinton made him get off for awhile but he is back and plans to stay.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:45 AM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,675,069 times
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With all the discussion around Afghanistan, I was reminded by this thread. Not only have our leaders forgotten, but enough time has passed that many people have forgotten some of the lessons that should be remembered.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,164,889 times
Reputation: 1335
This thread COULD be called "The lessons our leaders didn’t learn from the WWI". It was not until the Federal Reserve Act that all of these wars were legal profit making schemes for the banks. While we may disagree on whether particular wars were "right" or "wrong", it is pretty clear who the real victors have been from all of them. The Central Bank shareholders, in not just our nation either but throughout most of the world, are the winners of all of the wars waged with debt money made possible by a their "flexible" currency. If not for their ability to profit from the debt backed by the human capital they own, I suspect there would have been far less conflict throughout the world. Just another tin-foil hat opinion.

Most large wars are funded on both sides by the same shareholders. It really doesn't matter who wins as long as both sides are deeper in debt afterwards. The people go around rallying the troops for this cause or that without giving any consideration to the winners of every war or to the motives of those who make it possible with their magic paper.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,118,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Succeeded in WHAT? Wasting large amounts of blood and $$$? For WHAT benefit to the US? Improving infrastructure while you NeoConfuseds cry SOCIALISM! if anyone dare mention government improving OUR infrastructure?


Just WHAT mission did we succeed at that was both tasked by the Constitution and of benefit to the US?
The begining of the end of a civil debate?
I hope not.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 14,038,569 times
Reputation: 5917
First off, when it comes to nation building, I am against it. Iraq is a done deal as far as I am concerned and we need to get our people out ASAP. Afganistan is another story, so long as there are terrorists there and in Pakistan training more terrorists and planning new attacks we need to stay until we put an end to them. If the People of Afganistan happen to use the opportunity to revamp their government, more power to them, it is their country. We need to get the job done there as soon as we can then leave.
Casper
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:28 AM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,675,069 times
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Maybe so, but I take the premise of this piece to be focused on the open ended nature of wars like Vietnam and our current wars and occupations in the Middle East. No clearly defined goals, fighting a subsets of the national or regional populations as opposed to the nations themselves.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:29 AM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,880,155 times
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I don't thnik its a matter of not learnig ;its a matter of what they can really do now days. Afterall the leasson is bascailly don't start a war you don't intend to win. Its more a matter sometimes of the ploiutcs of war just as FDR found out after WWI when WWII started.The lesson from WWII was the epople foten don;'t really understand or favor a war until its too late so popualr opinion is no way to run a country really.We seem again to be runnin g the coun try on popular opinion now.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:43 AM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,675,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
First off, when it comes to nation building, I am against it. Iraq is a done deal as far as I am concerned and we need to get our people out ASAP. Afganistan is another story, so long as there are terrorists there and in Pakistan training more terrorists and planning new attacks we need to stay until we put an end to them. If the People of Afganistan happen to use the opportunity to revamp their government, more power to them, it is their country. We need to get the job done there as soon as we can then leave.
Casper
I certainly understand where this kind of sentiment arises from, but we also have to consider that fighting such wars in the manner in which we do also has the effect of creating more terrorist types as much as it does in getting rid of them.

I often ask people, how did and do you feel about what took place on Sept. 11th 2001? Did you feel angry, hurt, sorrow and anguish? I know most folks did and do, I sure do. The effects of what took place are long lasting, the drive for retribution strong, and the memory very slow to fade.

So when a US drone or bomber drops a bomb on the wrong target or one goes astray despite our best efforts not to inflict collateral damage, what do we think the result will be? When some Afghan farmer who could care less about which faction is in power as his goal is to keep his family alive first, gets a 1000lb bomb dropped on a wedding party, we end up with that same kind of anger, resentment, anguish and desire for retribution that we felt.

So thus the cycle is perpetuated.

Terrorism is a tactic, those people who commit terrorist acts or harbor desires to kill Americans are supposed to be who we are after. Yet when you can't tell a terrorist from a goat herder, then one of the few remaining options is to kill every man, woman, and child in biblical fashion. Or, leave.

There was a time when the Taliban and Al Qaeda were disorganized and disjointed, and the opportunity for some kind of victory was possible. After nearly nine years of war, the US and UN forces only control about 20-25% of the country, the opposition is now better funded than ever before, better equipped, and employing a more sophisticated and evolving strategy. We missed our window I hate to say.

Today we now have investigations taking place because of tax payer money being used as pay offs to the Taliban to allow convoys to pass. That's right, we are paying our enemy money to allow supplies to move. Bush and Obama both have considered opening up talks with the Taliban to reach some sort of concessions and compromise. As Bacevich pointed out, its dťjŗ vu all over again.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,053 posts, read 30,514,706 times
Reputation: 10490
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Afterall the leasson is bascailly don't start a war you don't intend to win.
That's a little ways from any lessons we should have learned in Vietnam. And I say that because we didn't "start" that war. It was France's colonial problem, and we insinuated ourselves into it. Very similar to what's happened in Afghanistan.
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