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Old 06-13-2009, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,819,613 times
Reputation: 12162

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
I should have been more specific but here is one of the arguments that I used when I wrote the paper. I wrote this paper some years ago and I do not remember all the details but this is one specific point that was made against the implementation of a National ID program:

Some further argue that a national identification card system would increase the incidence of ethnic and racial profiling by law enforcement. For example, authorities might be more likely to stop people who look Arab to ask them for their card. Certain minorities would be increasingly subjected to having to constantly prove their citizenship or immigration status
It is being done without a national ID. Just ask Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,873 posts, read 102,258,726 times
Reputation: 32945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
I should have been more specific but here is one of the arguments that I used when I wrote the paper. I wrote this paper some years ago and I do not remember all the details but this is one specific point that was made against the implementation of a National ID program:

Some further argue that a national identification card system would increase the incidence of ethnic and racial profiling by law enforcement. For example, authorities might be more likely to stop people who look Arab to ask them for their card. Certain minorities would be increasingly subjected to having to constantly prove their citizenship or immigration status
Aren't people stopped now for "driving while black"?
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:07 PM
 
197 posts, read 335,013 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Absolutely we need it. It needs to be tamper proof with a biometric feature to verify that you are who the ID says you are. I am all for it.
Biometric, are you suggesting we put chips in our boddies, HA, um NO!, thats about as anti-american as it gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
That is not true anymore. Driver's licenses in one state are now matched with another state. A cop who stops you in Cincinatti can see that your license in Georgia is good and when he gives you the ticket and you pay it, the points will be deducted from your Georgia license (personal experience).
thank you for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Just because they were more likely pulled over and searched doesn't mean it was because of their race. More likely it was because of other things police officers are trained to look out for like suspicious behavior or suspicious smells or physical signs of drug use.
what like obeying the speed limit and driving in their proper lane, seriously, suspicions behavior, what the crap is suspicious behavior, especially while driving. People friggin dress themselves while driving, aside from waiving a gun around, wildly changing lanes, leaving a crack house, or excessive speeding, how do you define "suspicious" behavior. Following some one for no reason is called profiling.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,252,185 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
The heck it is. Dont they have roadblocks where you live and they do just that already?

They call em dui checkpoints suppose to be checking for people driving drunk but they also check everything else
I am opposed to that. If they are DUI roadblocks then the officers should ONLY check for evidence of alcohol and nothing else. Now, if you have something plainly in sight, then they should be able to take it further. If not, a quick check to see if you appear to be drunk is all they should be allowed to do.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,252,185 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
Biometric, are you suggesting we put chips in our boddies, HA, um NO!, thats about as anti-american as it gets


thank you for that


what like obeying the speed limit and driving in their proper lane, seriously, suspicions behavior, what the crap is suspicious behavior, especially while driving. People friggin dress themselves while driving, aside from waiving a gun around, wildly changing lanes, leaving a crack house, or excessive speeding, how do you define "suspicious" behavior. Following some one for no reason is called profiling.
No chip in your body. Your fingerprint would be imbedded in the ID (Georgia does this now). Such an ID would actually give you MORE privacy because only your name and picture would be on the face of it. Your DOB, SS number, address and other info would be encoded inside of it and anybody checking it with a reader would only get the information they are entitled to get.
For example, if you want to buy a 6 pack at the liquor store, you don't hand it to the clerk to read but you swipe it in a machine (like the credit card) and put your index finger on the reader. It simply tells the clerk you are OK to buy liquor (meanning you are at least 21 and this is your ID). He gets no other information from you.
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:06 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,992,383 times
Reputation: 3073
I tend to be against it as a matter of principle. Most forms of identification today are voluntary and must be applied for i.e. passports, driver's licenses, state IDs etc. I think foisting a national ID card is a huge violation of the right to privacy. If it were voluntary that would be one thing..but a mandatory ID imho is right out regardless what its perceived benefits are.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:07 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,467,241 times
Reputation: 16765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
Biometric, are you suggesting we put chips in our boddies, HA, um NO!, thats about as anti-american as it gets


thank you for that


what like obeying the speed limit and driving in their proper lane, seriously, suspicions behavior, what the crap is suspicious behavior, especially while driving. People friggin dress themselves while driving, aside from waiving a gun around, wildly changing lanes, leaving a crack house, or excessive speeding, how do you define "suspicious" behavior. Following some one for no reason is called profiling.
Biometrics is scary. Just imagine a record somewhere of everywhere you went, everyone you took a ride with, everyone you spent the night with, when you stay up and sleep... Do we want to go that road?

I see people say hey, look how simple things could be if... but we need to look beyound the simple. People get outraged over cloning a sheep, because its a technology they don't know. And quite rightfully it needs to be discussed for what it could become and what rules we make. Biometrics and all the chip technology is the same thing. Tagging your pet is one thing, but what about your child? Your elderly parents? Your potentially cheating spouse?

ALL technology gets better and more powerful, and LONG LONG before we impliment it in its early stages we need to think if its really as good an idea as it sounds. Do some what if thinking. Put yourself in the place of someone who has hit one of the glitches. And ask WHEN do we balance privacy and personal rights against the all seeing god security.

Anyone ever see the new Battlestar Galactica? Look beyond the space battles and sex to what its really about. For every bit of technology that made their cyborg enemies came from them and was for something easy or simple or useful. They just didn't see where it would lead.

As for profilling, I have a friend who drives his 1967 truck home from work late in the evening. He is ALWAYS followed and watched by the cops. He maintains the speed limit, had good plates, drives properly and does nothing to attract them. He is white too. But being an old truck, its different. And they see the same guy in the same truck with NO indication that he is doing anything wrong each night. It is nothing about behavior just an old truck... you would think at some point they'd just give up on it. But no...
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,095 posts, read 23,614,830 times
Reputation: 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swansen View Post
Biometric, are you suggesting we put chips in our boddies, HA, um NO!, thats about as anti-american as it gets


thank you for that


what like obeying the speed limit and driving in their proper lane, seriously, suspicions behavior, what the crap is suspicious behavior, especially while driving. People friggin dress themselves while driving, aside from waiving a gun around, wildly changing lanes, leaving a crack house, or excessive speeding, how do you define "suspicious" behavior. Following some one for no reason is called profiling.
First they're pulled over for moving violation. Officers do this all the time and know the signs of someone nervous because of criminal behavior. They'll ask questions, observe their body movements, pay attention to the pupils of the eyes, and listen for slurred speech. If they feel there's enough justification they then ask for permission to search the vehicle. If given, then the vehicle is searched. If not, what's done next depends on the city/state. When a vehicle drives by a cop car at night, the officer can't tell the race or gender of the driver until the cop pulls the vehicle over.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,095 posts, read 23,614,830 times
Reputation: 7981
If you're afraid of the government having too much information about you then don't join the military. At this time my dental records, finger prints, and DNA are on file.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,547 posts, read 17,467,241 times
Reputation: 16765
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
No chip in your body. Your fingerprint would be imbedded in the ID (Georgia does this now). Such an ID would actually give you MORE privacy because only your name and picture would be on the face of it. Your DOB, SS number, address and other info would be encoded inside of it and anybody checking it with a reader would only get the information they are entitled to get.
For example, if you want to buy a 6 pack at the liquor store, you don't hand it to the clerk to read but you swipe it in a machine (like the credit card) and put your index finger on the reader. It simply tells the clerk you are OK to buy liquor (meanning you are at least 21 and this is your ID). He gets no other information from you.
IF there is a machine. What if there isn't one? You have a picture id with the other info on it so someone who is tasked with checking, or say has a private sale and wants to see check and id match can do so. And WHY do I need to have a record (and each swipe would) of each time I go into the liquor store to get beer? Especially if I pay cash?

This would allow someone to keep a nice concise data base of your life. Each time you need to show id your presence will be noted. You'll be known for buying beer four times a week. You'll be notied as someone who drives around a lot at night. There are lots of existing sources which can feed into this. And with our technology it can run fine without anyone doing a thing but the system.

Why does this matter? Lets say down the road you need medical treatment. Someone pulls up your profile. Eats out a lot, often fast food. Buys alchol often. Uneven sleep patterns. And many more things. A whole profile of YOU. It could be that you appeared on a camera near a crime. Do a profile, see if anything about you suggests you might be worth talking to. Maybe you had an anger problem in your life somewhere along the way, knew the victum.... Or the medical. With all your excesses are you worth the cost?

Is this out there a bit? Not really. We are perfectly capable of doing that now with the technology we have. We just haven't connected all the dots. A smart id card would be the cornerstone that could link it all. Do we really really want to go there?
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