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Old 06-14-2009, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,314 posts, read 39,491,899 times
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memeorandum

Revolution in Iran?

It appears the election was stolen. Where was Carter when you need him?

They are killing youth in the streets.

Informed Comment: Stealing the Iranian Election

There is just no way Ahmadinejad won that election.

Why isn't the WH speaking up?
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:31 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 2,107,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
memeorandum
It appears the election was stolen. Where was Carter when you need him?
He's schmoozing it up with his and Ahmadinajad's mutual friends in Gaza - Hamas! No kidding.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth/Dallas
11,878 posts, read 33,483,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Iran is one of the youngest countries on the planet, and to listen to John "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" McCain attack Obama for willing to sit and speak with this country was really sad to see, and the thought of a McCain Presidency was frightening.

Many Iranians, even though we created a hellish chaos on their border in Iraq, still like Americans. They dont want to be bombed by us anymore than we would like to be victim of another 9/11.

First the United States is held hostage to the necons, now the Iranians are held hostage to their nutcase theocratic government.

The people of Iran and America (those of us not insane) desire peace with each other. Unfortunately government gets in the way
True. The vast majority of Iranians want the same thing everyone else wants. It's the nutjob leaders that give the country a bad name.
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:02 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 2,107,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synopsis View Post
True. The vast majority of Iranians want the same thing everyone else wants. It's the nutjob leaders that give the country a bad name.
The same "vast majority" that's been electing the mullahs and their appointed candidates for 30 years? There has been nary a protest in all these years from the "vast majority".

You have no source and no way of legitimately making that claim.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:13 PM
 
12,439 posts, read 10,279,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamontnow View Post
The same "vast majority" that's been electing the mullahs and their appointed candidates for 30 years? There has been nary a protest in all these years from the "vast majority".

You have no source and no way of legitimately making that claim.
Nor do you. Since by their constitution only a cleric can be elected to the council of experts and the supreme leader vets who may be a candidate for council of experts, their constitution pretty much makes sure that the council and the supreme leader stay conservative. That however does not mean that a majority picked the mullahs because under their constitution they have no one else for which to vote. What is going to be required is a change in constitution. But I am happy to see baby steps, but I am unhappy to see the people that want change and peace dieing in the streets.


The real trouble with war (modern war) is that it gives no one a chance to kill the right people.
Ezra Pound
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:18 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,652,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamontnow View Post
The same "vast majority" that's been electing the mullahs and their appointed candidates for 30 years? There has been nary a protest in all these years from the "vast majority".

You have no source and no way of legitimately making that claim.
I think we all understand that to you there are only two legitimate sources of news, Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post and everything else is invalid. You have made this point quite clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synopsis View Post
True. The vast majority of Iranians want the same thing everyone else wants. It's the nutjob leaders that give the country a bad name.
According to WPO, there is a majority, but I wouldn't call it a vast majority. They are saying that polling shows between 50-55% of Iranians support better relations with the west.
Iranian Public Opinion on Governance, Nuclear Weapons and Relations with the United States - World Public Opinion

Interesting to also note that according to their polling, the number one issue of concern is the poor economy and energy shortages.

Quote:
U.S.-Iranian Relations - The WPO and TFT surveys indicate that Iran's public would be very supportive of a U.S.-Iranian agreement that promised to improve economic conditions through trade and investment ties and guaranteed Iran's nuclear energy program in return for foregoing nuclear weapons development and ending support for anti-government militants in Iraq.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:29 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 2,107,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
Nor do you. Since by their constitution only a cleric can be elected to the council of experts and the supreme leader vets who may be a candidate for council of experts, their constitution pretty much makes sure that the council and the supreme leader stay conservative. That however does not mean that a majority picked the mullahs because under their constitution they have no one else for which to vote. What is going to be required is a change in constitution. But I am happy to see baby steps, but I am unhappy to see the people that want change and peace dieing in the streets.


The real trouble with war (modern war) is that it gives no one a chance to kill the right people.
Ezra Pound
"Nor do you"? I made no claim about what the majority of them want. But it seems to me that many, probably most, are either indifferent or support the mullahs. Yes, there is a segment of the population that would like to see reform. They are centered in north Teheran and don't seem to have a widespread following in the country beyond that.

My point is that there are those who are making statements about what the majority (sometimes even the VAST majority!) of Iranians want as though they are facts when these statements are absolutely baseless. They don't cite a source because there isn't one.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:09 PM
 
1,263 posts, read 2,107,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I think we all understand that to you there are only two legitimate sources of news, Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post and everything else is invalid. You have made this point quite clear.



According to WPO, there is a majority, but I wouldn't call it a vast majority. They are saying that polling shows between 50-55% of Iranians support better relations with the west.
Iranian Public Opinion on Governance, Nuclear Weapons and Relations with the United States - World Public Opinion

Interesting to also note that according to their polling, the number one issue of concern is the poor economy and energy shortages.
Firstly, it's interesting to hear someone with your history criticize sources that I have used. You have defended the Iranian regime using PressTV as a source - the Islamic Republic's own mouthpiece!

The source you cite now actually indicates that a majority DOES support the regime, their theocratic system, support of terror groups, etc. 10-15% oppose the regime:

- a clear majority of Iranians express satisfaction with the "process by which the authorities are elected in this country" (62%, including 18% very satisfied and 44% somewhat satisfied) and approved of "the way President Ahmadinejad is handling his job as president" (66%).

- only a third of Iranians believe the press in Iran should be given more freedom (34%), compared to about half who prefer either the same amount of press freedom (43%) or less press freedom (9%).

- On the whole, Iranians appear to be relatively content with their government's responsiveness to the people. Iranians on average give their country a positive score of 5.9 (on a 0 to 10 scale, 0 meaning "not at all" and 10 meaning "completely") on being "governed according to the will of the people."

- Iranians by nearly two-to-one approve their government providing
"military and financial assistance" to each of three militant groups in the region: "Lebanese Hezbollah" (61% support vs. 32% oppose), "Palestinian opposition groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad" (61% vs. 32%), and "Iraqi Shiite militias" (59% vs. 33%).

- All in all, about half of the Iranian public clearly supports its national government, believing it can usually be trusted "to do what is right;" about one-fourth could be described as no more than lukewarm toward their government; and about 10-15 percent of Iranians are clearly alienated, with little or no respect for their national leaders.

Thanks for the info
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,617 posts, read 8,542,637 times
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it's OBVIOUS this election was rigged, I really hope they annul the election and get this fool out of office.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:41 PM
 
11,127 posts, read 12,652,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamontnow View Post
Firstly, it's interesting to hear someone with your history criticize sources that I have used. You have defended the Iranian regime using PressTV as a source - the Islamic Republic's own mouthpiece!

The source you cite now actually indicates that a majority DOES support the regime, their theocratic system, support of terror groups, etc. 10-15% oppose the regime:

- a clear majority of Iranians express satisfaction with the "process by which the authorities are elected in this country" (62%, including 18% very satisfied and 44% somewhat satisfied) and approved of "the way President Ahmadinejad is handling his job as president" (66%).

- only a third of Iranians believe the press in Iran should be given more freedom (34%), compared to about half who prefer either the same amount of press freedom (43%) or less press freedom (9%).

- On the whole, Iranians appear to be relatively content with their government's responsiveness to the people. Iranians on average give their country a positive score of 5.9 (on a 0 to 10 scale, 0 meaning "not at all" and 10 meaning "completely") on being "governed according to the will of the people."

- Iranians by nearly two-to-one approve their government providing
"military and financial assistance" to each of three militant groups in the region: "Lebanese Hezbollah" (61% support vs. 32% oppose), "Palestinian opposition groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad" (61% vs. 32%), and "Iraqi Shiite militias" (59% vs. 33%).

- All in all, about half of the Iranian public clearly supports its national government, believing it can usually be trusted "to do what is right;" about one-fourth could be described as no more than lukewarm toward their government; and about 10-15 percent of Iranians are clearly alienated, with little or no respect for their national leaders.

Thanks for the info
You are welcome.

Secondly, I like how you again deflect the subject, as you are actually fairly good at, so I feel I should give you credit. However the point you are making wasn't even the point we were discussing.

This portion of a quote by Odanny:
Quote:
The people of Iran and America (those of us not insane) desire peace with each other. Unfortunately government gets in the way
Synopsis responded by stating the following in regards to the people of Iran desiring peace:
Quote:
The vast majority of Iranians want the same thing everyone else wants. It's the nutjob leaders that give the country a bad name.
To which your reply was the following:

Quote:
The same "vast majority" that's been electing the mullahs and their appointed candidates for 30 years? There has been nary a protest in all these years from the "vast majority".

You have no source and no way of legitimately making that claim.
You didn't answer the actual question about the Iranian people wanting peace, you responded by saying the Iranian people have a lack of protesting their government. In essence you created a clever straw man and deflected the conversation by making a statement in response to something that wasn't even in question.

My response to that discussion was that a majority of the Iranian people seek better relations with the west. Again you attempted to divert the conversation by suggesting the people support their system of government. Which is interesting because no one said anything about the Iranian people supporting or not supporting their government, as we were talking about the Iranian peoples desire for peace and better relations with the west. Again, a straw man you created by responding with an answer no one asked a question to.

I have played these word games with people such as yourself for a long time, but then I guess that makes me an anti-semantic.

Given this polling data and the many videos Iranian people protesting that I have seen, I think it is fair to at least say there is a vein of sentiment that is permeating through the people which is divergent from the belligerent affront so well spewed by Ahmadinejad. I realize you would prefer Ahmadinejad, since it makes the target more viscerally clear.
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