Global Warming Didn't Exist In The US Until 1979! (Jesus, politician, elect)

[GOPATTA2D]

I have lived in the SW & CA for many years. Temps here in NM are about the same. This June, in fact, has been the COLDEST June on record, with average temps about 8 degrees below normal. Snowpack has been near normal. The SW has always suffered from periodic drought. Scientific evidence from tree rings indicates normal wet/dry cycles dating back 800 years. We'll assume they were not driving Hummers in 1200AD.

Nobody can deny climate change - the earth has been getting warmer since the last Ice Age. What I dispute is that it is changing more or less rapidly in the last 100 years due to human activity.

Furthermore, if I accept your argument that humans are the cause, there is no real answer short of massive population control. Since some of you are more committed to the cause than me, please lead by example. Disconnect your electricity, trade in your car for Nikes, quit heating your home, and most importantly, hold your breath until the temperature returns to normal. Water vapor, after all, is the largest greenhouse gas by volume. If I remember, it is 99.5% of all greenhouse gases.

[mississauga75]

Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D

I have lived in the SW & CA for many years. Temps here in NM are about the same. This June, in fact, has been the COLDEST June on record, with average temps about 8 degrees below normal. Snowpack has been near normal. The SW has always suffered from periodic drought. Scientific evidence from tree rings indicates normal wet/dry cycles dating back 800 years. We'll assume they were not driving Hummers in 1200AD.

Nobody can deny climate change - the earth has been getting warmer since the last Ice Age. What I dispute is that it is changing more or less rapidly in the last 100 years due to human activity.

Furthermore, if I accept your argument that humans are the cause, there is no real answer short of massive population control. Since some of you are more committed to the cause than me, please lead by example. Disconnect your electricity, trade in your car for Nikes, quit heating your home, and most importantly, hold your breath until the temperature returns to normal. Water vapor, after all, is the largest greenhouse gas by volume. If I remember, it is 99.5% of all greenhouse gases.

Good post - and as I stated earlier China and India are becoming huge energy users and it's not the "clean" type either. I hardly think developed countries like Canada and the U.S should disrupt economic competiveness for an environmentalist cause that if even is correct, is a useless cause anyway.

Btw i was in NM in January and it's a beautiful state! I loved Carlsbad Caverns.

[odanny]

Originally Posted by mississauga75

By the end of the year China will be the largest energy consumer in the world. India will also usurp the U.S in a few years. They don't give a rats behind about pollution.

So why should we?

Leaders lead. Maybe you didnt get the memo.

[Nomander]

Originally Posted by rlchurch

I'll accept valid scientific research that highlights areas of climate change that need to be refined. The Heartland Institute doesn't publish such research, the Senate Republicans don't publish such research, there aren't 30 thousand research scientists who dispute global warming.

And through this all there are no mainstream scientific professional organization (that where scientists actually assemble to exchange views) that support what you're saying. Sorry, I guess it's an "Inconvenient Truth."

Really?

Congressional Report

Doesn't the sand get into your ears when you do that?

[Swansen]

some interesting reports on climate change.

The Real News Network - Iconic French glacier retreats as global warming hits
The Real News Network - White House Releases Landmark Climate Change Report

[mississauga75]

Originally Posted by odanny

So why should we?

Leaders lead. Maybe you didnt get the memo.

Because right now the country is in economic hard times and can't afford to lose economic competitiveness. If green energy can create jobs great, but if more people are starving and poor and the standard of living goes down in the U.S because of force fed green initiatives - what will be accomplished? The earth as you advocate will be going down the greenhouse shi**er anyway... it's only a matter of time..China and India don't care about environmental leadership. Maybe my brand of leadership is a more realistic brand that is viable.

[Nomander]

Originally Posted by Swansen

some interesting reports on climate change.

The Real News Network - Iconic French glacier retreats as global warming hits
The Real News Network - White House Releases Landmark Climate Change Report

Oh, you mean this report?

http://downloads.globalchange.gov/us...cts-report.pdf

Funny, it still uses the Hockey stick. Odd, maybe they do not read their own congressional reports. The hockey stick has been proven invalid without a doubt. It was shown incorrect by its own numbers and it was part of the Wegman Congressional Report (The post right above yours) to which specifically explained why. It doesn't matter though, this is political science and in political science, the truth is whatever you get people to believe it is.

As for the glaciers, there is another topic that is of interest, but not one of my specialty.

[jetgraphics]

Assuming that population keeps doubling every 40 - 50 years (40 for the world, 50 for the USA).

In 2010, we will have 6.7 billion people worldwide, and 305 million Americans.

In 2060, we will have 13.4 billion people, and 600 million Americans.

To accommodate them, we need to expand agriculture and food production, as well as expand housing, etc, etc.

Obviously, we can no longer support any suburban sprawl that paves over arable land, no matter how much the tax-and-spend politicians wish it so. Likewise, we will have to change to high population density, mixed use development, integrated with rail based mass transit.

Current oil reserves will 'hit the wall' in about 10 - 20 years, so the sooner we begin transition from a petroleum dependent culture, the better.

And you see the widespread support for electric rail, restoration of farmland, abandonment of housing developments - right?

... uh ...
... right?

Instead, we have 'fearless' (brainless?) leaders subsidizing automobiles and their manufacturers (an industry that will collapse within 5 - 10 years, anyway). Of course, short sighted greed and power dominate the public institutions, and we can pretty much kiss our butts good bye.

TEOTWAWKI

[rlchurch]

Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D

Furthermore, if I accept your argument that humans are the cause, there is no real answer short of massive population control. Since some of you are more committed to the cause than me, please lead by example. Disconnect your electricity, trade in your car for Nikes, quit heating your home, and most importantly, hold your breath until the temperature returns to normal. Water vapor, after all, is the largest greenhouse gas by volume. If I remember, it is 99.5% of all greenhouse gases.

We don't have to do all this; all we have to do is live responsibly. I buy electricity from renewable resources, I've insulated my house, when I put a new roof on this year I chose shingles with a high albedo, I take public transportation into work. All in all, while I live a reasonably opulent lifestyle, I have a very modest carbon footprint. It's about wise choices, not freezing in the dark.

[odanny]

Originally Posted by mississauga75

Because right now the country is in economic hard times and can't afford to lose economic competitiveness. If green energy can create jobs great, but if more people are starving and poor and the standard of living goes down in the U.S because of force fed green initiatives - what will be accomplished? The earth as you advocate will be going down the greenhouse shi**er anyway... it's only a matter of time..China and India don't care about environmental leadership. Maybe my brand of leadership is a more realistic brand that is viable.

Thats some shaky logic. Sounds kind of like the Red Army is at the gates of the Fuhrer bunker and we all might as well have fun while we can.

The truth is, experts have said its not too late, but we are approaching a tipping point. We cannot delay any longer.