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I am not gay so I apologize for intruding a bit here. But I hope gay Americans can remain optimistic in spite of the pace of change. I just want to suggest that many of these changes will take generations to take place. I am 50 and 30 years ago I hardly cared nor was sympathetic to gay issues. But year by year, person by person I met, my opinions changed. I think many people are like me. I may not support every gay issue, but I support MANY. And I consider myself a conservative overall. I expect my ideas will influence others and that will lead to additional attitude change.
Simply getting laws passed will not do everything required. People that were raised intolerant will take a long time to change their minds. Keep at it!
I am not out to change minds. The goal is legal equality, and not of the "seperate but equal" variety. Everything else will take effect after that has been had.
Are you proud of him because he's one of the best people you've ever known, or because of his sexual preferences? A person cannot be intrinsically "good" solely because they like same-sex relations....anymore than sexual preference makes a straight person "good".
You might be mixing up the two.
Are you serious? What an idiotic & thoughtless post not to mention completely offensive to me & him. Are you friends w/your friends because they're straight? Do you only like them because they're hetero? What the hell kind of response is that? No my dear, I love him because he's an awesome person, I didn't seek him out because he's gay. Moronic. Oh, I see you're no longer a member, big surprise.
I am not gay so I apologize for intruding a bit here. But I hope gay Americans can remain optimistic in spite of the pace of change. I just want to suggest that many of these changes will take generations to take place.
You are absolutely correct. I am in my 30's and have seen more and more progress on LGBT rights with each passing year. It seems to me that the younger generations are at best much more progressive genarally than the previous generations and at worst, ambivalent to LGBT issues. Either way, it's a win-win situation for the LGBT community in the near future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano
I am 50 and 30 years ago I hardly cared nor was sympathetic to gay issues. But year by year, person by person I met, my opinions changed.
Spot on! To me, this is and should be the focal point of the LGBT movement for Civil Rights: We are individual people seeking the full and equal rights we are entitled to. We are your brothers and sisters; your Aunts and Uncles; Sons and Daughters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano
I think many people are like me. I may not support every gay issue, but I support MANY. And I consider myself a conservative overall. I expect my ideas will influence others and that will lead to additional attitude change.
Your support is very much appreciated. There seems to be a misconception amongst some in the anti-gay community that the LGBT community wants to force our beliefs and "agenda" on them. All we are asking is that the enforcement of their beliefs and "agenda" on us be ceased.
They tend to forget that we are all entitled to the same rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and that forcing others to conform to what they feel is "right" is just plain wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano
Simply getting laws passed will not do everything required. People that were raised intolerant will take a long time to change their minds. Keep at it!
Agreed. We may never reach everybody, and that is ok. All people are entitled to maintain whatever beliefs or opinions they want to. People like yourself though, are the greatest agents of change in this regard. Change is never easy, but, if they see others who have changed or softened their opinions and survived the ordeal, maybe they can too!
The Courts need to overrule the people. Civil rights issues are not a matter for the people to decide. Women, blacks, and other minorities didn't have to wait for "the people," and neither should gays and lesbians.
So you advocate legislating from the bench? The job of the Judiciary is interpretation of the laws passed by Congress, which in turn is populated by voters comprised of the citizens of the nation. It is not the job of judges to make laws. Thus, it is very much not the job of any court anywhere to overrule the people. Ideally, the majority of the people decide the path of the nation, not a bunch of crackpot judges.
From Lincoln's Gettysburg address: "...we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Spot on! To me, this is and should be the focal point of the LGBT movement for Civil Rights: We are individual people seeking the full and equal rights we are entitled to. We are your brothers and sisters; your Aunts and Uncles; Sons and Daughters.
So you advocate legislating from the bench? The job of the Judiciary is interpretation of the laws passed by Congress, which in turn is populated by voters comprised of the citizens of the nation. It is not the job of judges to make laws. Thus, it is very much not the job of any court anywhere to overrule the people. Ideally, the majority of the people decide the path of the nation, not a bunch of crackpot judges.
From Lincoln's Gettysburg address: "...we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Yes, I do advocate legislating from the bench, if that's what you want to call it. The function of SCOTUS is to protect the individual rights and liberties of the minority from the tyranny of the majority. That is an extremely important aspect that you seem to be neglecting in your rush to condemn the court system. By virtue of their role as the interpreters of laws, they have the power to assess the law's fairness and applicability, which also gives them the right to change that law.
You only call them "crackpot judges" because you disagree with them. Would you call the ruling that declared segregation unconstitutional the doings of "crackpot judges?" Or, how about the verdict that overturned the anti-miscegenation laws (Loving v. Virginia)?
The Court is doing what it's supposed to do, and what it has always done. Just because you don't care for the progress that has been made because of the court's decisions doesn't give you any credibility in speaking ill against it.
I'm going to sound like a conservative, but my advice is this: Don't make being gay such a big part of your identity and you won't feel so disillusioned.
Sure, it's frustrating at times, but huge progress has been made over the last 10 years. It was only 10 years ago that Vermont introduced civil unions to the nation. At the time, it was a far-left idea; now it's considered a moderate-to-conservative idea. I go could on and on. There are many, many examples I could give you.
I'm not at all ashamed or embarrassed to be an American. This is a great country. Hang in there.
On this one, I agree with you UAM.
My neighbors are Gay and are the two best neighbors I've ever had in my life. Like UAM said, hang in there.
Ummm...being gay IS your identity. The two are inseperable for most people, and a few legal precedents doesn't change the fact that most people are still against the inclusion of gays and lesbians.
I think most people are not against the inclusion of gays and lesbians. Gays and Lesbians have the right to live their lives as they see fit and should not be discriminated against. That's the opinion I get from most people that I hang out with, who are moderate to conservative btw.
Yes, I do advocate legislating from the bench, if that's what you want to call it. The function of SCOTUS is to protect the individual rights and liberties of the minority from the tyranny of the majority. That is an extremely important aspect that you seem to be neglecting in your rush to condemn the court system.
You only call them "crackpot judges" because you disagree with them. Would you call the ruling that declared segregation unconstitutional the doings of "crackpot judges?" Or, how about the verdict that overturned the anti-miscegenation laws (Loving v. Virginia)?
The Court is doing what it's supposed to do, and what it has always done. Just because you don't care for the progress that has been made because of the court's decisions doesn't give you any credibility in speaking ill against it.
And you advocating usurping the authority and role of the judiciary does give you credibility? You're the one neglecting aspects of our system of government here. I'm not speaking ill against it, just calling attention to the facts. Legislation is left to Congress, not judges. Interpretation of laws as written (not as you'd like them to be written) is the domain of judges.
Haha it's not a Civil Rights issue. Not even close.
Gay marriage will never come to most states in your lifetime, and rightfully so.
Being gay is a mental disorder IMHO, it is unnatural, and should be treated as a mental disorder. There is no more reason to be proud of being gay than being proud of having Schizophrenia or OCD.
I'm a pretty conservative person, and a Christian, but I believe that it is insane to compare a person that is Gay or Lesbian to someone that has a mental disorder.
Gays and Lesbians are by and large some of the most decent people we have in our communities. I could never be a part of that lifestyle, but it's not for me to judge.
The only way that I can judge a person is on the content of their character, and I'll tell you something; the two Gay guys living next door to me have more character than 90 percent of the straight people that I know.
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A person cannot be intrinsically "good" solely because they like same-sex relations....anymore than sexual preference makes a straight person "good".
