Another Phoney Scandal (legal, independent, how much, money)

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

Really? Seems like lots of banks were failing in the early 80's. I vaguely recall a nationwide savings and loan crisis. Nobody lost their life savings when the Madison Guaranty bank failed; the FDIC covered those savings just like it did at all the other bank failings. Who were all those investors in Whitewater Development? You mean the four people, the Clintons and McDougals, lost their life savings?

I did not claim that people lost their life savings when "Madison Guarantee Bank" failed, I said Whitewater... Are you really having this much trouble following the OP?

You do understand that people were buying lots, paid money on them, and never received anything for it, dont you? For example.

How Bill And Hillary Handled Foreclosures | Sweetness & Light
Soapes and the couple from Nevada were not alone. More than half of the people who bought lots in Whitewater—teachers, farmers, laborers, and retirees—made payments, missed one or two, and then lost their land without getting a dime of their equity back. According to Whitewater records, at least sixteen different buyers paid more than $50,000 and never received a property deed.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by pghquest

hmmmm, compare the life savings lost during the Democratic Congress to the money made during the Republican Congress.. oooh no.. cant do that...

Tell ya what...we'll get Ken Starr to come back and give him four or five years and tens of millions of dollars to see if he can find where Democrats in the 110th Congress had anything more to do with Bush's economic disasters than what Clinton had to do with Whitewater failings. Maybe Starr just messed up the first time...

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by saganista

Tell ya what...we'll get Ken Starr to come back and give him four or five years and tens of millions of dollars to see if he can find where Democrats in the 110th Congress had anything more to do with Bush's economic disasters than what Clinton had to do with Whitewater failings. Maybe Starr just messed up the first time...

Great rebuttal, ohh wait, no it wasnt..

I never EVER said Clinton had ANYTHING to do with Whitewater "failings", I claimed people lost money.. Nice try at deflection though to try to mix Starr in with the Democratic Congress, only the uninformed could take that response and not laugh..

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by pghquest

I did not claim that people lost their life savings when "Madison Guarantee Bank" failed, I said Whitewater... Are you really having this much trouble following the OP?

You do understand that people were buying lots, paid money on them, and never received anything for it, dont you? For example.

How Bill And Hillary Handled Foreclosures | Sweetness & Light
Soapes and the couple from Nevada were not alone. More than half of the people who bought lots in Whitewater—teachers, farmers, laborers, and retirees—made payments, missed one or two, and then lost their land without getting a dime of their equity back. According to Whitewater records, at least sixteen different buyers paid more than $50,000 and never received a property deed.

Thank you for finally providing something. It doesn't say that these sixteen people lost their "life savings" or even that these sixteen buyers each paid more than $50,000 each, or altogether. $50,000 altogether doesn't seem like such a tremendous loss, though I'm sure it hurt the sixteen people involved. I don't know about the laws in other states, but it sounds like these deals were "owner-financed" real estate deals. Which are common in Arkansas, and allow the "owner" to act as the lender and receive the interest in the transaction. Property deeds are held by the owner until such time as the buyer pays off the contract, or buys out of it.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

Thank you for finally providing something. It doesn't say that these sixteen people lost their "life savings" or even that these sixteen buyers each paid more than $50,000 each, or altogether. $50,000 altogether doesn't seem like such a tremendous loss, though I'm sure it hurt the sixteen people involved. I don't know about the laws in other states, but it sounds like these deals were "owner-financed" real estate deals. Which are common in Arkansas, and allow the "owner" to act as the lender and receive the interest in the transaction. Property deeds are held by the owner until such time as the buyer pays off the contract, or buys out of it.

I NEVER said SIXTEEN people lost their "life savings" I said ask SOMEONE who did. You do understand that if people paid $14,000 for something, and then missed a $300 payment, that was a very large sum, (especially back then). If it wasnt, they could have made their $300 payment..

p.s. no, they were not owner financed, they were rent to own. Owner financed deals, mean the deeds get transferred and the seller holds a MORTGAGE, not a lease.. Was this your attempt to again deflect from the OP and pretend that people were not harmed?

[GregW]

So Obama fired a right wing ideologue. Good, he has a lot more to go before the government is purged of these thieves.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by pghquest

I NEVER said SIXTEEN people lost their "life savings" I said ask SOMEONE who did. You do understand that if people paid $14,000 for something, and then missed a $300 payment, that was a very large sum, (especially back then). If it wasnt, they could have made their $300 payment..

p.s. no, they were not owner financed, they were rent to own. Owner financed deals, mean the deeds get transferred and the seller holds a MORTGAGE, not a lease.. Was this your attempt to again deflect from the OP and pretend that people were not harmed?

I'm not a realtor, so I'm not claiming any expertise. My parents had some land that they sold which they owner-financed, and they did not transfer the deed. I know that they paid the property taxes on the property for several years because the deed had not been transferred. When the buyers were able to secure a conventional loan, they paid the balance of what was left on the contract and the deal was closed in the normal way. I remember my mother noting that one of the tenets of their contract was if the buyers missed a single payment, that the contract was nullified and the buyers lost their entire investment. This was also back in the 80's, and the laws may have changed since then.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

I'm not a realtor, so I'm not claiming any expertise. My parents had some land that they sold which they owner-financed, and they did not transfer the deed. I know that they paid the property taxes on the property for several years because the deed had not been transferred. When the buyers were able to secure a conventional loan, they paid the balance of what was left on the contract and the deal was closed in the normal way. I remember my mother noting that one of the tenets of their contract was if the buyers missed a single payment, that the contract was nullified and the buyers lost their entire investment. This was also back in the 80's, and the laws may have changed since then.

Then your parents sold their property by doing a rent to own, or lease with option agreement, and yes, the laws have changed substantially since the 1980's.. I never claimed the Clintons broke the law, I claimed that people lost money..

Clintons "skirted" the law, just like Bush did on the "waterboarding" issue..

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Then your parents sold their property by doing a rent to own, or lease with option agreement, and yes, the laws have changed substantially since the 1980's.. I never claimed the Clintons broke the law, I claimed that people lost money..

So if the Clintons didn't break the law, the scandal was phony????

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

So if the Clintons didn't break the law, the scandal was phony????

The "scandal" was that the Clintons created a housing community, received taxpayer funding to build roads (not unusual), borrowed money from a bank, owned by a friend of theirs, that went bankrupt and needed bailed out by the FDIC, while not selling ANYONE a lot or developing ONE home..

not breaking the law doesnt mean they were "right"..