The Canadian Health Care thread (Maine, status, million, world)

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Hm.. GD.. what kind of bank roll does yuor friend have? He can afford to pay for hip replacement surgery out of pocket here in the U.S.. or does he have U.S insurance?

He is paying for it out of his pocket. Other Canadians do the same for treatment in the US TM.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

He is paying for it out of his pocket. Other Canadians do the same for treatment in the US TM.

LOL.. the numbers of those that ARE getting treatment in the U.S is MINISCULE.. AND.. they are obviously people who can AFFORD to pay out of pocket for it

Like I said.. he has the financial means to move himself AHEAD of the line. He CHOSES to PAY out of pocket because he has that LUXURY of paying out of pocket.. as does ANY Canadian that has that kind of money GD

Traveling for Care -- Outside the U.S. | Universal Health Care | Change.org

Let's make one thing abundantly clear, there’s no evidence that the number of Canadians who cross the border to receive care in the U.S. is statistically significant

Kline: Canadians flock to Minnesota for health care, Mall of America « Minnesota Independent: News. Politics. Media.

Several sources of evidence from Canada reinforce the notion that Canadians seeking care in the United States were relatively rare during the study period. Only 90 of 18,000 respondents to the 1996 Canadian National Population Health Survey indicated that they had received health care in the United States during the previous twelve months, and only twenty indicated that they had gone to the United States expressly for the purpose of getting that care.

Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians' Use Of Health Care Services In The United States -- Katz et al. 21 (3): 19 -- Health Affairs
This article speaks of the statistics and results of the studies.. AND.. a majority that got treatment in the U.S actually RESIDED in the U.S half the year as "snowbirds" that go south for the Canadian Winter! The number was a whopping .5 (1/2) of 1%!!!

[murphyj87]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Hm.. GD.. what kind of bank roll does yuor friend have? He can afford to pay for hip replacement surgery out of pocket here in the U.S.. or does he have U.S insurance?

Cost of Hip Replacement - Get Information and Cost Guidelines - CostHelper.com

Not many middle income families can afford to spare that kind of money.

Now, given that here in the U.S most of those in need of hip replacement are already on the only form of what most would deem a "socialized" system (although obviously not all, particularly those under 65, have access too) would be getting that surgery. So they would be covered.

However, what about a person who , for some reason or another, is not yet medicare ready, is not poor to qualify for medicaid, but certainly doesn't have that kind of money laying around? They would probably NEVER be able to get that hip replacement (atleast not till they reached 65). Given it's not life threatening it's not like the hospital is just going to give it to him without advanced payment!!!

The difference is,.. in Canada , sure they would have to wait on line like everyone else.. but at least in Canada he'd GET that surgery without the high cost involved that most regular people can't really afford.

He is fortunate enough to have the means to actually go someplace else and put himself AHEAD of the line? Big freaking deal. I'm sure there are man more in Canada happily waiting on line for said surgery because they certainly wouldn't have the means to foot the cost on their own and would otherwise have to suffer in pain for , well forever, ..never mind a 9 to 12 months.



His hip surgery wasn't life threatening. His pain sucks, I don't belittle that, but he wasn't being denied the surgery or told he couldn't have it.. he just had to wait in line to get the service. Someone without insurance and a non life threatening problem in the U.S is basically denied..either by their overpriced insurance company with a claim (not on hip surgery in particular, but denials in general) or by lack of ability to pay.

Oh.. and before you give me another BS line about how treatment isn't denied here in the U.S.. tell that to all these people in these articles:

Hear the Stories | Cover the Uninsured
Uninsured in America : Susan Starr Sered and Rushika Fernandopulle
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/op...11krugman.html
Health Care Stories for America | BarackObama.com

Most Canadians who go for treatment in the US do so not because they need to, but as a status symbol of being rich enough to be able to afford treatment in the US. An average Canadian would NEVER touch US insurance-run health care with a 10 foot pole.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by murphyj87

Most Canadians who go for treatment in the US do so not because they need to, but as a status symbol of being rich enough to be able to afford treatment in the US. An average Canadian would NEVER touch US insurance-run health care with a 10 foot pole.

Absolutely right.. THAT was my point!


Same rings true for any person seeking care in the U.S from another country
Thanks!

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by murphyj87

Most Canadians who go for treatment in the US do so not because they need to, but as a status symbol of being rich enough to be able to afford treatment in the US. An average Canadian would NEVER touch US insurance-run health care with a 10 foot pole.

OR, the fact they do not want to live on pain pills for such a long time - and that they would like the opportunity to a better quality of life.

Now, its not wrong to want a good quality of life, is it?

Its not wrong to want to get off narcotic drugs, is it?

[murphyj87]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Again with the chip on your shoulder TM

I never said anything about money. I said they were paying for it. So what?

I was only pointing out the issue of time.

Yet you wish to pick a fight. Well, fight with yourself TM.

You do it so well

BTW - your surveys are to old (1996) to be meaningful

Well how about this 2008 one...... 1200 hip replacements done in Canada in 2008 were done on people 85 years of age or OLDER.

and a 2008 one... 92% of Canadians would NEVER trade the single payer health care system we have for an American style insurance-run system.

The US insurance-run health care system is rationed by finances... Americans have massively rationed health care by virtue of PROFIT.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by murphyj87

Well how about this 2008 one...... 1200 hip replacements done in Canada in 1008 were done on people 85 years of age or OLDER.

Total non answer to my question.

Would you care to answer my specific questions?

[murphyj87]

Originally Posted by Greatday

OR, the fact they do not want to live on pain pills for such a long time - and that they would like the opportunity to a better quality of life.

Now, its not wrong to want a good quality of life, is it?

Its not wrong to want to get off narcotic drugs, is it?

Like Rush Limbaugh? The wait times you're trying to to push are false. I had surgery in Canada in 4 days, 6 days, 10 days and 16 days, far faster than I would have to in the US waiting 2 weeks to 3 months for insurance company approval. What you're saying is totally without basis to REAL Canadians. The average Canadian has far better health care than the average American, who has to be on on pain meds for 30 to 40 years until they can afford treatment when they become eliglible for Medicare. Canadians get faster tests, treatments, and surgery than the majority of Americans. I waited for 3 months for insurance company approval when I lived in the US. I've never had to wait NEARLY an eighth of that time for treatment in Canada.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by murphyj87

Like Rush Limbaugh?

Non Sequitur

Originally Posted by murphyj87

The wait times you're trying to to push are false.

They were the times provided to our friend, in writing, from his physician. Therefore, and inasmuch as his physician provided the times, I would not consider them false.

Originally Posted by murphyj87

I had surgery in Canada in 4 days, 6 days, 10 days and 16 days,

That's nice. Non Sequitur

Originally Posted by murphyj87

What you're saying is totally without basis to REAL Canadians.

He is a "REAL" Canadian. Born, Raised, and to be buried in Canada. I'm not sure how much more "real" he can get.

Originally Posted by murphyj87

aho has to be on on pain meds for 30 to 40 years until they can afford treatemnt when they become eliglible for Medicare.[

Nope, did not say, infer, nor imply any such thing.

Originally Posted by murphyj87

Canadins get fastre test, treatment, and surgery than the majority of Americans.

In our friends case, the opposite is true. He is going to end up having both surgeries done here, MONTHS before even being scheduled for the FIRST one there.

Mind you, I am speaking only of this one person (although I have personal knowledge of others). But this one person, will be able to get started on a decent quality of life much sooner than if he had remained in Canada.

[murphyj87]

Originally Posted by Greatday

In our friends case, the opposite is true. He is going to end up having both surgeries done here, MONTHS before even being scheduled for the FIRST one there.

Your friend should have gotten a second opinion and gone to a city in Canada that has real hospitals.

Originally Posted by Greatday

Mind you, I am speaking only of this one person (although I have personal knowledge of others). But this one person, will be able to get started on a decent quality of life much sooner than if he had remained in Canada.

My experience of four surgeries lifetime in Canada within 4 days, 6 days, 10 days, and 16 years is that of one person as well and far more characteristic of what really happens in Canada. Also because I can go to a physician (within 3 to 48 hours BTW) my hypertension is in control, which I could never afford to do in the US. In the US I would have died of heart attack long ago, as opposed to having my hypertension under control for 20 years here in Canada.