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and you know one of a handful of Canadians who prefer US insurance-run health care..
OK, here is a total mischaracterization of my posts / position. It borders on a total fabrication of the truth. A lie.
I defy you, let me repeat, I DEFY YOU to find any post where I have said, implied, inferred, suggested, intimidated etc, where I have said I know even ONE Canadian who "prefers US INSURANCE RUN health care"
I defy you.
The fact that our friends are here to have a medical issue resolved, is not an endorsement etc of what you suggest.
So, I now DEMAND you back up what you assert I have said.
If you can't (and you cannot), an apology will be accepted from you.
The full US health care system uses prices fixed (ie price fixing) by insurance companies, so even people without insurance are affected by prices made unaffordable by US health insurance companies. That is why the 45,000 Americans a year come to Canada for treament and surgery, and 122 Americans a day die because they can't pay afford prices fixed in collusion by physicians, hospitals, and US insurance companies.
The full US health care system uses prices fixed (ie price fixing) by insurance companies, so even people without insurance are affected by prices made unaffordable by US health insurance companies. That is why the 45,000 Americans a year come to Canada for treament and surgery, and 122 Americans a day die because they can't pay afford prices fixed in collusion by physicians, hospitals, and US insurance companies.
Nothing you say here has anything to do with your assertions of my posts.
And I fully realize that $30,000 is quite a bit of money. But, this couple, having worked all their life - done pretty good with their investments and all, feel comfortable with this cost. Like I related earlier, the wife told me a little while ago, they thought it would have been quite a bit more in fact.
It may just as well be if there is any complications or a stay in the hospital longer than expected...there are big 'ifs' involved in that quoted price.
So it's ok for 122 Americans to die today for lack of affordable health care....yet you say Canadians would have a better "quality of life" in the US despite the fact they would die from lack of affordable health care in the US, compared to 100% coverage for primary physicians, specialists, and tests, treatment, surgery and hospital stays in Canada. Ask those 122 Americans who died today from unaffordable health care if their "quality of life" is better with the American health care system. There are hundreds of horror stories in the US for each and every Canadian horror story you can name.
Last edited by murphyj87; 10-26-2009 at 08:15 PM..
It may just as well be if there is any complications or a stay in the hospital longer than expected...there are big 'ifs' involved in that quoted price.
That was my point. I expect to see the bill top $100,000, maybe a LOT more than $100,000 by the time it's all over.
Insurance companies would still be rationing health care by profit. The average American would still have inferior health care compared to the average Canadian with a government funded single payer system. Waiting lists are far longer in the US than they are in Canada. Waiting lists of 2 weeks to 3 months are what Americans call insurance company approval. Only uninformed and uneducated Americans think the US has a superior system to that of Canada. I have far better health care in Canada to what I had for seven years that I lived in and used the garbage you call a "health care system" in the US. What the US has had for many years is insurance-run health care, rationed by profit.
Waiting lists are NOT longer for Americans than for Canadians. Here's a link to the 2008 edition of a report done annually in Canada on the wait times for medical procedures. On page seven (7) of that report is a paragraph titled "Summary: The magnitude of the problem and the importance of reform." In that paragraph is the following sentence;
Quote:
Moreover, academic studies of waiting time have found that Canadians wait longer than Americans, Germans, and Swedes (sometimes) for cardiac care, although not as long as New Zealanders or the British
Last edited by Bill Keegan; 10-26-2009 at 09:09 PM..
Reason: fixed quote tags.
Waiting lists are NOT longer for Americans than for Canadians. Here's a link to the 2008 edition of a report done annually in Canada on the wait times for medical procedures. On page seven (7) of that report is a paragraph titled "Summary: The magnitude of the problem and the importance of reform." In that paragraph is the following sentence;
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Again, that is a MAXIMUM and most things are done a very small fraction of the MAXIMUM time. I had to wait anywhere from two weeks to three months for insurance company approval when I lived in there US and I had terrible quality of care in the US compared to what I have in Canada. I have never waited any longer than 16 days for a not serious surgery and 6 days for a serious but not urgent surgery. I waited far longer than that and never less than 14 days for insurance company approval when I lived in the US. Canadian health care for all Canadians is far better than what I was stuck with when I lived in the US.
My mother had bypass surgery in 2 1/2 days, and only that long because the cardiologist wanted to take a day to stabilize her further since they felt in her initial condition she would likely die on the operating table. Where is this waiting time for cardiac surgery you're pretending happens here?
By the way, the Fraser Institute is a very right wing think tank, and is about as reliable as the Lewin Group (a wholly owned subsiduary of United Healthcare) is for health care numbers. The Fraser Institute is not a reliable source, it reflects the opinion about 2% of Canadians. The Fraser Institute is on a par for believability with Faux Noise in the US.
Last edited by murphyj87; 10-26-2009 at 09:50 PM..
Where is this waiting time for cardiac surgery you're pretending happens here?
Same day - next day here in Phoenix
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