Universal health care- For or against? (alcohol, problems, community, pay)

[windflower]

Originally Posted by skytrekker

How the supposed richest, most 'free' nation on earth cannot even offer its citizens not free or socialized medicine but affordable coverage is immoral.

A nations that puts its citizens health at the mercy of greedy for profit companies and their CEO's is itself a travesty- and says something about this countries false values.

Affordable health care based on income is not socialized, not communist but fair(

Skytrekker, you said exactly what I was trying to... but far better.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Coyote_Blond

Ignoring the problem? If I were ignoring the problem I wouldn't be paying the taxes to take care of them! Here's a solution. They have to PROVE they're 100% incompasitated and unable to work. And for those who ARE capable you've got one year on assistance (if that) to GET A JOB, pay YOUR taxes & get off the system. During which time you will only be proved ANY assistance if you prove monthly that you're working fulltime & not buying smokes & beer or gum. The solution is not to tax us more OR keep letting those leeches to make a living off of the system. Make THEM fix the problem. If they choose to be bums then let Mother Nature take its course. It's called natural selection!

I think you're confusing two different things. Whether there is a group of people who choose to work or not has nothing to do with the fact that many hard working, productive people in this country have no healthcare coverage and little chance of affording it. And I hope you're just as vehement in complaining about the hundreds of billions o $$$$$$ we send to other countries to fight for people who won't fight for themselves.

[windflower]

Here's a suggestion I haven't seen offered: Create a government-sponsored health insurance program on a "workfare" basis. In other words, as long as a person has a job, whether it's part-time or full-time, if that employer cannot or does not choose to provide health insurance benefits.... That person is entitled to be covered under the program. In other words, if you have a job, you're entitled to have affordable health insurance coverage if your employer doesn't provide something.

This would satisfy those who do not want the ranks of the unemployed to automatically receive insurance at the taxpaying public's expense. It would also (since a W-2 or other proof of ongoing employment would be necessary in order to continue participation in the program) eliminate most of the undocumented-immigrant "drain on the system" that many are opposed to.

I say "most" because it is possible for undocumented immigrants to obtain a falsified Social Security number and thus obtain employment under it. How widespread the practice is, I don't know; but I do know it exists because I have seen it.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by windflower

I say "most" because it is possible for undocumented immigrants to obtain a falsified Social Security number and thus obtain employment under it. How widespread the practice is, I don't know; but I do know it exists because I have seen it.

They can actually obtain an IRS taxpayer number for those ineligible for an SS number, the IRS is prohibited from sharing info on illegals who pay taxes with the immigration people.

[windflower]

Ah, I didn't know that. The incident I heard of was from an employer who didn't realize that his employee had been in the USA for the past five years illegally, having come over on a student visa, then quit college and simply stayed on. The employee presented him with what looked like a valid Social Security card, so he hired her. He only found out that she was an illegal recently, when the girl split up with her (American) boyfriend and the boyfriend tipped off the INS out of spite. The girl actually went around the office pleading with all the single men to marry her "on paper" so that she wouldn't be deported! (no one did)

[fishmonger]

Originally Posted by Coyote_Blond

Ignoring the problem? If I were ignoring the problem I wouldn't be paying the taxes to take care of them! Here's a solution. They have to PROVE they're 100% incompasitated and unable to work. And for those who ARE capable you've got one year on assistance (if that) to GET A JOB, pay YOUR taxes & get off the system. During which time you will only be proved ANY assistance if you prove monthly that you're working fulltime & not buying smokes & beer or gum. The solution is not to tax us more OR keep letting those leeches to make a living off of the system. Make THEM fix the problem. If they choose to be bums then let Mother Nature take its course. It's called natural selection!

but the real world doesn't work that way. There are plenty of good poor people in the world as well as bad/lazy rich people. If "natural selection" gave everyone what they deserve we wouldn't have people like Richard Scrushy or Paris Hilton. And there are also plenty of hard-working, self employed, non-poor people who can't afford their own healthcare.

[skytrekker]

Thanks for the compliments Sunnyhelena
and also to you Windflower

[burdell]

Originally Posted by fishmonger

but the real world doesn't work that way. There are plenty of good poor people in the world as well as bad/lazy rich people. If "natural selection" gave everyone what they deserve we wouldn't have people like Richard Scrushy or Paris Hilton. And there are also plenty of hard-working, self employed, non-poor people who can't afford their own healthcare.

That's why I think the arguments we've heard are really about administrative issues, abuse of the system, not about why there shoudn't be some kind of healthcare program.

[Tone509]

I can certainly respect this idea!

Originally Posted by windflower

Here's a suggestion I haven't seen offered: Create a government-sponsored health insurance program on a "workfare" basis. In other words, as long as a person has a job, whether it's part-time or full-time, if that employer cannot or does not choose to provide health insurance benefits.... That person is entitled to be covered under the program. In other words, if you have a job, you're entitled to have affordable health insurance coverage if your employer doesn't provide something.

This would satisfy those who do not want the ranks of the unemployed to automatically receive insurance at the taxpaying public's expense. It would also (since a W-2 or other proof of ongoing employment would be necessary in order to continue participation in the program) eliminate most of the undocumented-immigrant "drain on the system" that many are opposed to.

I say "most" because it is possible for undocumented immigrants to obtain a falsified Social Security number and thus obtain employment under it. How widespread the practice is, I don't know; but I do know it exists because I have seen it.

[Coyote_Blond]

Originally Posted by burdell

I think you're confusing two different things. Whether there is a group of people who choose to work or not has nothing to do with the fact that many hard working, productive people in this country have no healthcare coverage and little chance of affording it. And I hope you're just as vehement in complaining about the hundreds of billions o $$$$$$ we send to other countries to fight for people who won't fight for themselves.

Do you people EVER read previous posts? My complaint is with those who sit on their duffs milking the system for benefits. I repeat. Sitting. As in not working!
Someone mentioned earlier the US was suppose to be the richest nation etc., etc. Well now, I don't see how when we pump our money into helping other countries or our taxes pay for those who won't help themselves! Hell I oughta quit my job(s) so I can get free medical & a weekly paycheck I haven't lifted a finger to earn. It's bad enough we support aliens! Look at the Korean kid that JUST shot up Virginia Tech. He was NOT American. Can you say Green Card? And he was referred to counciling because people reported him as unstable. Now odds are his Dry Cleaner owning parents weren't going to pay for that. And if he'd needed mental healthcare outside of school (had he not gone postal), we would've paid for it. We pay for everybody & damn few need or deserve it!