Universal health care- For or against? (politicians, program, voting, constitutional)

[ShadowXOR]

You do realize before Bush we had the largest surplus ever, now thanks to him we have the largest deficit ever. The man is a moron and I wouldn't allow him to drive me in a Taxi let alone run the country.

[DeLaSalle]

Originally Posted by Pixie Dust

Ok now Im counting before responding to your post. I will try as much as possible to be calm, educated and percise.

1. There is NO reason why this country does not have a national health care program. I believe in Mass. they will begin some type of state insurance in July.

2. In Costa Rica the head of the household pays 3% of his paycheck to cover his entire family for health insurance. This works there and I dont see why it wouldnt work here.

3. My husband works over 50 hours a week and his employer does NOT offer health insurance. He is NOT an illegal immigrant, his boss simply cannot afford health premiums. SO to say the least he has know health insurance. I fortunatley do because of my disability. (By the way since surgery I am feeling better and am waiting for one more test to declare myself cancer free!!!!) I miss working and making my money you cannpt compare $875/mon dissability to over 4k/month in working.

4. Like my husband there are millions of hard working people that do not have health insurance. The only reason it doesnt happen here is completley political. Big money in insurance and pharmacuetical companies. They also make HUGE donations to presidential campaigns.

For the record I am not a socialist. However, I do believe that a nation a great as ours that spends so much in wars across the ocean can do something more proactive in insuring its citizens.

Amen... ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by ShadowXOR

You do realize before Bush we had the largest surplus ever, now thanks to him we have the largest deficit ever. The man is a moron and I wouldn't allow him to drive me in a Taxi let alone run the country.

Actually, we don't have the largest deficit ever, relative to GNP. Would you rather have Bush NOT send the military to Afghanistan? Would you rather have Bush NOT help the airlines recover from 9/11? These things cost money. I too despise the amount of domestic spending, i.e. corporate and individual welfare, the Farm Bill and other discretionary spending, but much of his spending resulted from 9/11 and recovering from the Clinton recession.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Amaznjohn

Actually, we don't have the largest deficit ever, relative to GNP. Would you rather have Bush NOT send the military to Afghanistan? Would you rather have Bush NOT help the airlines recover from 9/11? These things cost money. I too despise the amount of domestic spending, i.e. corporate and individual welfare, the Farm Bill and other discretionary spending, but much of his spending resulted from 9/11 and recovering from the Clinton recession.

This is right where I get confused. Why do so many think it OK fot thr government to come to the aid of a corporation that suffers a catastrophe yet when an individual suffers a catastrophic illness through no fault of their these same people have the attitude that inviduals must take care of themselves? Have corporations somehow become the Golden Calf of some new cult?

[MikeJaquish]

Originally Posted by burdell

This is right where I get confused. Why do so many think it OK fot thr government to come to the aid of a corporation that suffers a catastrophe yet when an individual suffers a catastrophic illness through no fault of their these same people have the attitude that inviduals must take care of themselves? Have corporations somehow become the Golden Calf of some new cult?

A corporation is first and foremost people. Individuals. Individual people who have assembled a business, or work for that business, or invested in that business, and the folks who depend on these individual people for income and support.
You can't hurt a corporation without hurting people. Can't be done. And not all those people are rich, CEO's, Directors, etc.
At an airline, many take reservations, check tickets, serve sodas, load baggage, park planes, wash planes and clean them between flights.

Would it have been better to have those people unemployed and in the streets? I hardly think so. That would have only exacerbated the disaster.
Of course it would have given rise to the silliness of taxing corporations and "the rich" to support them.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by MikeJaquish

A corporation is first and foremost people. Individuals. Individual people who have assembled a business, or work for that business, or invested in that business, and the folks who depend on these individual people for income and support.
You can't hurt a corporation without hurting people. Can't be done. And not all those people are rich, CEO's, Directors, etc.
At an airline, many take reservations, check tickets, serve sodas, load baggage, park planes, wash planes and clean them between flights.

Would it have been better to have those people unemployed and in the streets? I hardly think so. That would have only exacerbated the disaster.
Of course it would have given rise to the silliness of taxing corporations and "the rich" to support them.

I never said we shouldn't have helped the airlines, I question why help corporations, which as you say, are people, and tell individuals they must fend for themselves?

Is there a minimum corporate size for aid to be offered? Do we aid a corporation of 1000 people but tell one of 500 they're on their own? Who is to make these decisions?

THAT's what I question. Why is it OK to hekp froups of people and not individuals? When was it and by who was it decided individuals no longer count?

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by burdell

This is right where I get confused. Why do so many think it OK fot thr government to come to the aid of a corporation that suffers a catastrophe yet when an individual suffers a catastrophic illness through no fault of their these same people have the attitude that inviduals must take care of themselves? Have corporations somehow become the Golden Calf of some new cult?

I agree. However the problems with the airline industry after 9/11 affected the entire economy. I have no problem with caring for an individual who may have a highly contagious disease, to prevent a nation-wide epidemic.

[MikeJaquish]

"Why is it OK to hekp froups of people and not individuals? When was it and by who was it decided individuals no longer count?"

There are economics of scale in helping large groups with a common existing administration/management system.
And the cost is easy to trace and administer.

Who would pay for universal health care? How would it be administered?
Would it be mandatory or voluntary to contribute and partake of the services?
Would an individual desire to not participate or contribute be honored?
Do your answers to these questions support individuals or promote intrusive government?

[burdell]

Originally Posted by MikeJaquish

There are economics of scale in helping large groups with a common existing administration/management system.
And the cost is easy to trace and administer.

Who would pay for universal health care? How would it be administered?
Would it be mandatory or voluntary to contribute and partake of the services?
Would an individual desire to not participate or contribute be honored?
Do your answers to these questions support individuals or promote intrusive government?

All you've brought up are administrative issues. I have yet to hear a good consistent argument frim the 'antis' why helping a corporation or another country is OK yet helping an individual is not.

[LeavingFlorida05]

Originally Posted by burdell

All you've brought up are administrative issues. I have yet to hear a good consistent argument frim the 'antis' why helping a corporation or another country is OK yet helping an individual is not.

Because they've been brainwashed since they were born. Helping individuals is socialism and it's bad. Helping business is capitalism and it's good. It's the American way!