Universal health care- For or against? (Congress, drugs, statistics, deaths)

[silas777]

Originally Posted by burdell

And the right is always crying that we may only have the capability to destroy the world 40 or 50 times over and that's simply not enough so we should spend a few 100 billion to increase that capability. Or that government doesn't exist to benefit the people, they'll say this while cruising down a government financed highway in a vehicle rendered much safer due to government financed research while they drive to the doctor for a vaccination with a medicine made possible due to government funded research but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, the government shouldn't do anything for the people.

Makes perfect sense

Burdell, this is dejavu all over again for you and I. for the record I dont believe the government should be financing highways or make ing vehicles safer!

[ShadowXOR]

[quote=spunky1;583674]

Originally Posted by ShadowXOR

I wasn't singling you out I find anyone who doesn't believe in helping those who can't afford to get medical help, heartless.

I do and will continue to help people (and animals) out. I am not one about totting my own horn but I have never (before) been accused of being heartless.

Well you have now.

[silas777]

Originally Posted by burdell

The Preamble to the Constitution, the stated purpose of its existence, makes it pretty clear what the opinion of the founders would be. Despite those who pretend they know better I'd prefer to stick with the original. And if provide for the general welfare doesn't include something like healthcare I'd like to hear a logical argument why that's so.

So where would you draw the line on that general welfare phrase Burdell?

[burdell]

Originally Posted by silas777

Burdell, this is dejavu all over again for you and I. for the record I dont believe the government should be financing highways or make ing vehicles safer!

Well, I still believe in the Constitution and until someone proves differently I take provide for the general welfare to mean provide for the general well being of the people and all that entails.

The government shouldn't be making vehicles safer? Cuts into corporate profits too much, eh?

[fishmonger]

Originally Posted by silas777

So where would you draw the line on that general welfare phrase Burdell?

Question not directed to me, but personally I'd say it should stop at the basic needs of existence... food, shelter, healthcare, police/fire protection, education, etc. The capitalist system isn't enough of a perfect meritocracy for anyone to definitively say that the extreme conditions of poverty and living below a survivable level are really a "just punishment" for a majority of those who experience it. To believe so (in my opinion) signifies coldness and social Darwinism.

[ShadowXOR]

When you fall down low enough you need a hand to pick you back up. I'm not saying there shouldn't be rules surrounding this but not everyone has access to the things I am thankful that I had access to. And many other are far more fortunate than me. I am very against certain forms of welfare but come on, some people can't work because of their condition. They can't get help because they don't have health care, and they can't get health care because they can't work. It is a cycle someone can become stuck in forever.

[silas777]

Originally Posted by ShadowXOR

A. I am moving to another place.

B. And people (like you) are claiming it is a very easy thing to overcome, when for many people it really isn't. I don't know your situation but I guarantee you there are people that have it so bad you can't imagine (I don't mean me). Not everyone can just "get health insurance".

D. No I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Not everyone in this world can be wealthy. Good job paying for your own health care, I pay for mine too. That isn't the point. Is everyone you? No. Apparently you think you're the center of the earth and everyone should be like you.

Newsflash: You are not the focus of the world.

That is my point, I CAN Imagine and my family has been through catastrophic medical challenges and I know very up close and personal about how hard it is and not sleeping at night and worrying, fearing that I am going to lose everything and wondering what is going to happen when the other shoe drops! But I still dont think it is your responsibility to pay my medical bills! You make an awful lot of assumptions, with out know who your talking to. Until you have walked a mile in someone elses moccasins you might want to tone down your accusations!

[ShadowXOR]

Originally Posted by silas777

That is my point, I CAN Imagine and my family has been through catastrophic medical challenges and I know very up close and personal about how hard it is and not sleeping at night and worrying, fearing that I am going to lose everything and wondering what is going to happen when the other shoe drops! But I still dont think it is your responsibility to pay my medical bills! You make an awful lot of assumptions, with out know who your talking to. Until you have walked a mile in someone elses moccasins you might want to tone down your accusations!

I would be more than willing to help foot your bills through a universal health care system if I made far more than you.

[silas777]

Originally Posted by burdell

Well, I still believe in the Constitution and until someone proves differently I take provide for the general welfare to mean provide for the general well being of the people and all that entails.

The government shouldn't be making vehicles safer? Cuts into corporate profits too much, eh?

so does that include telephone? because without a phone you cant call 911 in case of an emergency!

[fishmonger]

Originally Posted by silas777

That is my point, I CAN Imagine and my family has been through catastrophic medical challenges and I know very up close and personal about how hard it is and not sleeping at night and worrying, fearing that I am going to lose everything and wondering what is going to happen when the other shoe drops! But I still dont think it is your responsibility to pay my medical bills! You make an awful lot of assumptions, with out know who your talking to. Until you have walked a mile in someone elses moccasins you might want to tone down your accusations!

Well... I respect you for making it through that, but what if you hadn't been able to afford it? What kind of healthcare would your kids deserve then (maybe it was someone else...)?