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Old 06-26-2009, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Hangin' with the bears.
3,811 posts, read 4,338,303 times
Reputation: 915

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
sometimes it is just a matter of the right coding to get it through.
Sometimes it does. Sometimes it's the patient's age and chronic health conditions that are the cause of the denial.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Hangin' with the bears.
3,811 posts, read 4,338,303 times
Reputation: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by allydriver View Post
Stop deflecting
This thread is about Obamas comments in regard to cutting off medical treatment to save money for those he feels unworthy.
The AMA and Republicans have nothing to do with his statements.
I'm not deflecting. I'm responding to your post,
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by allydriver
Deciding who lives and dies,it's the ultimate power trip for a control freak liberal.
I pointed out that the person who is already, this day/this hour/this minute/this second, somewhere in this country already 'deciding who lives and dies' is likely a 'control freak conservation'.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,763 posts, read 4,340,984 times
Reputation: 2060
Scenario: You are 60 years-old and suffer a major heart attack. A large clot has formed then broken loose and travels to the heart, where it blocks the flow of blood. Without blood, heart tissue dies. The damage done is extensive and surgery is not an option. Your family knows that you want all possible measures used, so you're put on the list for a cardiac transplant. But the heart muscle is weakened and your circulation impaired to the point that other functions are affected. Your kidneys shut down, and toxins accumulate in your body. Your respiratory system slows and it is an effort for you to breathe. Your digestive system shuts down, so that you couldn't digest food, even if you were able to eat. Because your heart is weakened, it works ever harder, causing greater weakening; fluid begins to accumulate in your lungs, so you're literally drowning in your own fluids. There is decreased blood flow to the brain, which controls your body's functions; you become comatose.
Under such circumstances, you are going to die; waiting for a transplant is
useless. This is the type of situation being discussed. Again, we are discussing the care of people for whom death is the outcome, not some
government ploy to deny people care. Is this so impossible to grasp??
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Hangin' with the bears.
3,811 posts, read 4,338,303 times
Reputation: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salukifan1 View Post
Scenario: You are 60 years-old and suffer a major heart attack. A large clot has formed then broken loose and travels to the heart, where it blocks the flow of blood. Without blood, heart tissue dies. The damage done is extensive and surgery is not an option. Your family knows that you want all possible measures used, so you're put on the list for a cardiac transplant. But the heart muscle is weakened and your circulation impaired to the point that other functions are affected. Your kidneys shut down, and toxins accumulate in your body. Your respiratory system slows and it is an effort for you to breathe. Your digestive system shuts down, so that you couldn't digest food, even if you were able to eat. Because your heart is weakened, it works ever harder, causing greater weakening; fluid begins to accumulate in your lungs, so you're literally drowning in your own fluids. There is decreased blood flow to the brain, which controls your body's functions; you become comatose.
Under such circumstances, you are going to die; waiting for a transplant is
useless. This is the type of situation being discussed. Again, we are discussing the care of people for whom death is the outcome, not some
government ploy to deny people care. Is this so impossible to grasp??
Apparently so....
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Chicago Suburbs
3,191 posts, read 3,779,376 times
Reputation: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siouxcia View Post

I pointed out that the person who is already, this day/this hour/this minute/this second, somewhere in this country already 'deciding who lives and dies' is likely a 'control freak conservation'.
So you believe Obama is aligning himself with the"control freak" conservatives in the AMA?
As a liberal, you must feel sold out.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:22 PM
 
6,966 posts, read 5,403,111 times
Reputation: 2768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salukifan1 View Post
Scenario: You are 60 years-old and suffer a major heart attack. A large clot has formed then broken loose and travels to the heart, where it blocks the flow of blood. Without blood, heart tissue dies. The damage done is extensive and surgery is not an option. Your family knows that you want all possible measures used, so you're put on the list for a cardiac transplant. But the heart muscle is weakened and your circulation impaired to the point that other functions are affected. Your kidneys shut down, and toxins accumulate in your body. Your respiratory system slows and it is an effort for you to breathe. Your digestive system shuts down, so that you couldn't digest food, even if you were able to eat. Because your heart is weakened, it works ever harder, causing greater weakening; fluid begins to accumulate in your lungs, so you're literally drowning in your own fluids. There is decreased blood flow to the brain, which controls your body's functions; you become comatose.
Under such circumstances, you are going to die; waiting for a transplant is
useless. This is the type of situation being discussed. Again, we are discussing the care of people for whom death is the outcome, not some
government ploy to deny people care. Is this so impossible to grasp??
Casting pearls in front of swine.....

A+ for the effort.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:05 PM
 
5,397 posts, read 6,873,186 times
Reputation: 4043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salukifan1 View Post
Scenario: You are 60 years-old and suffer a major heart attack. A large clot has formed then broken loose and travels to the heart, where it blocks the flow of blood. Without blood, heart tissue dies. The damage done is extensive and surgery is not an option. Your family knows that you want all possible measures used, so you're put on the list for a cardiac transplant. But the heart muscle is weakened and your circulation impaired to the point that other functions are affected. Your kidneys shut down, and toxins accumulate in your body. Your respiratory system slows and it is an effort for you to breathe. Your digestive system shuts down, so that you couldn't digest food, even if you were able to eat. Because your heart is weakened, it works ever harder, causing greater weakening; fluid begins to accumulate in your lungs, so you're literally drowning in your own fluids. There is decreased blood flow to the brain, which controls your body's functions; you become comatose.
Under such circumstances, you are going to die; waiting for a transplant is
useless. This is the type of situation being discussed. Again, we are discussing the care of people for whom death is the outcome, not some
government ploy to deny people care. Is this so impossible to grasp??
Another scenario within that system of thought: You're a 75 year old with an inoperable brain tumor, history of severe alcoholism, liver damage. Most likely going to die. The only treatment to be considered should be palliative, BUT you're a US Senator, so why should the rules apply to you? For you we'll try everything at our disposal. Let the commoners follow the "rules".
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,792 posts, read 28,995,932 times
Reputation: 7377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salukifan1 View Post
This is the type of situation being discussed. Again, we are discussing the care of people for whom death is the outcome, not some
government ploy to deny people care. Is this so impossible to grasp??
Isn't death the usual outcome in life?
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,792 posts, read 28,995,932 times
Reputation: 7377
Quote:
Originally Posted by fopt65 View Post
Another scenario within that system of thought: You're a 75 year old with an inoperable brain tumor, history of severe alcoholism, liver damage. Most likely going to die. The only treatment to be considered should be palliative, BUT you're a US Senator, so why should the rules apply to you? For you we'll try everything at our disposal. Let the commoners follow the "rules".
Why not give him the Kopechne treatment?
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,763 posts, read 4,340,984 times
Reputation: 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Casting pearls in front of swine.....

A+ for the effort.
************************************************** *********

Thanks, ray...just trying to get some people to grasp the difference. I don't think they want to understand, frankly. All of their daily dramas and distortions of the truth are much more fun.
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