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Do you know in England where No one is allowed guns they had 12 gun related deaths. And we had 27000
Now, I'm no gun nut. I don't even own a gun, but I grew up using guns occasionally (hunting and target shooting), have taken gun safety classes, and I'm comfortable around guns and responsible people who use guns.
What gets me going is misuse of statistics to make a point. I'm not saying that you, Nea 1, are purposely using the statistic to mislead. I'm sure you read that somewhere (I've come across it on a number of occasions myself) and believe it to be true and an accurate reflection of real life in the two countries.
However, I have lived in the UK (Scotland) for more than half of my adult life. (I'm moving back to the States with my family sometime this year). I happen to know that gun gang culture is very big in London, and some of the other big cities in England. And (anecdotally I'll admit) I'm pretty sure I've heard of at least that many (12) reports of gun deaths in the news in Glasgow, Scotland on an annual basis. Including one infamous incident of a 14 year old, walking into a Police station a couple of blocks from where I used to work, and shot an unarmed cop with a handgun that was supposed to be impossible to obtain in this country. I also have colleagues who witnessed a gang shooting in a restaurant near where I work. However, I don't have any statistical evidence to refute your quoted statistic directly.
What I can show, is that the number of homicides, is still pretty high over here. I've just looked at the statistics for homicides in the two areas I've lived most of my life. I realise that my comparisons have their own problems in a strict statistical analysis, but I believe they show a closer glimpse of reality and context than the above statement.
According to City-data's own numbers, Minneapolis had 12.3 murders per 100,000 (I assume this includes other categories of homicide, but not sure) in 2005. According to Strathclyde Police Website, Glasgow had 64 homicides from April 2005 to March 2006. That's an average of 11 homicides per 100,000, for Glasgow. And that's a 30% drop from the previous year. It matters not, what implement is used to commit the murder, you're just as dead.
Again, I'm not a rabid, gun-toting NRA member (no offence to NRA members), but that statistic above just does not stack up to real life.
As far as the incident in Virginia, I can only extend my condolences and prayers to all family members and friends. I really wish this hadn't turned into a 2nd amendment debate so rapidly. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this.
Last edited by wrightclan; 04-18-2007 at 05:38 AM..
Reason: punctuation again
This guy came from a foreign country, acted like a terrorist, killed like a terrorist - WOW - sound familiar - like the guys who did us on 9/11.
MAYBE it's time we have a moritorium on foreign nationals posing as students allowed into the US. Maybe it's time we protect our own people and borders from terrorist acts, because that is just what this attack was - a cowardly, terrorist attack!!!!!!
don't forget the gunman spent most of his life in U.S since he was 7 years old
and this is a domestic individual event.
9/11 is another story..about the conflict between muslim and U.S
So, this is the thread to discuss the "controversial" side of this tragedy?
Wow. People are allll over the map.
Personally, I think there is way too much focus on Cho Seung-Hui's nationality/race and not enough of the fact that this young man was quite possibly/most likely mentally ill. Hullllooooo.
Is everyone else missing this line in many of the news reports:
Quote:
Cho, a 23-year-old senior majoring in English, may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.
If it comes to light that he was on antidepressants at the time of the shooting, that is going to be one UGLY lawsuit.
Now, I'm no gun nut. I don't even own a gun, but I grew up using guns occasionally (hunting and target shooting), have taken gun safety classes, and I'm comfortable around guns and responsible people who use guns.
What gets me going is misuse of statistics to make a point. I'm not saying that you, Nea 1, are purposely using the statistic to mislead. I'm sure you read that somewhere (I've come across it on a number of occasions myself) and believe it to be true and an accurate reflection of real life in the two countries.
However, I have lived in the UK (Scotland) for more than half of my adult life. (I'm moving back to the States with my family sometime this year). I happen to know that gun gang culture is very big in London, and some of the other big cities in England. And (anecdotally I'll admit) I'm pretty sure I've heard of at least that many (12) reports of gun deaths in the news in Glasgow, Scotland on an annual basis. Including one infamous incident of a 14 year old, walking into a Police station a couple of blocks from where I used to work, and shot an unarmed cop with a handgun that was supposed to be impossible to obtain in this country. I also have colleagues who witnessed a gang shooting in a restaurant near where I work. However, I don't have any statistical evidence to refute your quoted statistic directly.
What I can show, is that the number of homicides, is still pretty high over here. I've just looked at the statistics for homicides in the two areas I've lived most of my life. I realise that my comparisons have their own problems in a strict statistical analysis, but I believe they show a closer glimpse of reality and context than the above statement.
According to City-data's own numbers, Minneapolis had 12.3 murders per 100,000 (I assume this includes other categories of homicide, but not sure) in 2005. According to Strathclyde Police Website, Glasgow had 64 homicides from April 2005 to March 2006. That's an average of 11 homicides per 100,000, for Glasgow. And that's a 30% drop from the previous year. It matters not, what implement is used to commit the murder, you're just as dead.
Again, I'm not a rabid, gun-toting NRA member (no offence to NRA members), but that statistic above just does not stack up to real life.
As far as the incident in Virginia, I can only extend my condolences and prayers to all family members and friends. I really wish this hadn't turned into a 2nd amendment debate so rapidly. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this.
I got the number from England government website. Also seen it in many articles. I am pretty sure englands gun deaths do not add up to 27000
I got the number from England government website. Also seen it in many articles. I am pretty sure englands gun deaths do not add up to 27000
What "England Government" website would that be? There is no "England Government." England is part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."
But that's beside the point. My point was that homicide numbers per population are similar (admittedly in the two cities I have direct experience of), however the homicides occur.
Last edited by wrightclan; 04-18-2007 at 06:56 AM..
Reason: clarification
What "England Government" website would that be? There is no "England Government." England is part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."
But that's beside the point. My point was that homicide numbers per population are similar (admittedly in the two cities I have direct experience of), however the homicides occur.
I dont remember it was late! i guess I will have to search it out again for you.
I found this article that also say alot of deaths happened by replica guns and there was a link to an article with the numbers and that if you own a gun you are more likely to be killed by it. And the other article shows we need more high tech gun safety measures and gives examples, Which I am all for since I own two myself.
"First lets get the gun problem into perspective. In the UK, you have more chance of winning over a million pounds on the National Lottery than of being shot dead.
The UK has one of the lowest gun death rates per head in the world at (1999 figures),(0.22 per 100,000 per annum), this compares to the US rate of (6.08 per 100,000 per annum).
In the UK, there has been a fall in gun deaths since the introduction of a partial handgun ban in 1996 and a total handgun ban in 1997, from 358 in 1995 to 163 in 2003.
The increase in firearm incidents is linked to increased use of replica, paintgun, airgun and other less lethal firearms that are still legal.
There are over 140,000 police officers in the UK, up more than 11,000 since 1997.
Of which 11 police officers have been shot dead in the last 20 years.
In terms of fatality, being a police officer is one of the safest occupations.
At around 1 death per 100,000 per annum, it is more than 100 times safer than being a fisherman (123 deaths per 100,000 per annum), and it is actually a safer job than the average (2 deaths per 100,000 per annum).
From today's Guardian;
36 police officers have died in the line of duty in England, Scotland and Wales in the past 20 years - 11 shot, 10 stabbed and three beaten to death, while 12 were killed by vehicles.
· PC Sharon Beshenivsky was the sixth woman out of 1,600 officers to die in Britain since the formation of the modern police service in 1829. The last female officer shot dead was PC Yvonne Fletcher, 25, outside the Libyan embassy in London in 1984. Women make up 21% of the 43 English and Welsh forces.
· Sixty people were shot dead last year, down from 70 in the previous 12 months.
· Police believe there are almost 300,000 illegal guns in Britain. Much gun violence is gang and drug-related. Three-quarters of those killed or maimed in shootings in London are black, as are 80% of the gunmen, statistics mirrored in several other English cities.
so what , In England they kill people with other weapons.
In such great numbers as 33 at a time?
Look what problem do you have with more gun safety measures? Me I am all for it, we have all this technology and we cant come up with better measures? I like my guns I would prefer to keep them, but then again I am not a nut job. But you know what even the sanist person can snap, so there needs to be measures.
1. If guns are outlawed how do you propose we keep guns out of the hands of criminals?
2. If you had been in one of the class rooms would you have wanted a gun to protect yourself. Yes or No (If no please explain)
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