Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:13 PM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,615,068 times
Reputation: 3870

Advertisements

I grew up in a small town, and homeschooling was frowned upon for the simple reason that everyone's kids went to the same school, and rejecting that experience marked you out as someone who didn't want to be "part of the community." It also led to a suspicion that you felt your kids were "too good" for the local system.

And in a small town, where there is a limited pool of people to begin with, cutting yourself off from the local highschool experience was basically social suicide. Particularly when it came to the normal teen experiences of dating, making the sports teams, hanging around with friends, and so forth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:17 PM
 
2,839 posts, read 9,968,858 times
Reputation: 2944
I agree with pooches9. If someone is neglecting or abusing their child, then of course social services should get involved. A child who does not learn the difference between "to" and "too" can hardly be considered neglected for that reason alone.

Question: Aside from this being a controversy web forum, why is the general public so concerned about homeschoolers? More people cry "what about the children??" when it comes to homeschooling than when it comes to matters like feeding their kids crap on a regular basis (not literal crap, of course, I'm talking about McDonalds, Rice a Roni, and other junk!) or not facilitating a love of reading in children. What is so threatening about homeschooling in general that is not applied to other tenets of parenting? Should people have to take a competency exam before teaching their kids to tie their shoes (bunny ear method vs. run around the tree method)? Or a nutritional exam before being allowed to cook dinner for their families? Perhaps a financial literacy exam before being allowed to take their kids clothes-shopping? A homemaking test before teaching kids how to make a bed? I truly don't understand the thinking here.

If someone has gone through the public education system, why is it assumed that they're unable to teach someone else the "basics"? If they are, in fact, unable to show a kid how to use basic phonics, why would they want to send their child into the same system that failed them?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:18 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,634,706 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooches9 View Post
Newtoli, I apologize for not reading you question from earlier. To answer, yes, I do believe there should be 100% no restrictions on homeschooling, as long as child labor laws are in place and child advocacy groups still exist to avoid anything fishy. Why? I guess it's mostly principle, but I do think, as parents, it's our right to decide what and how our children should learn. I also think the college and job processes would take care of the sorting of education. Most people at this point usually shout, "What about the basics?!" but to me, "basics" (if it means basic knowledge we all need to survive in the real world) can be easily self-taught by any eager person who really wants to know. Not to say I am of the "unschooling" thought or believe this is all most people need. Call me radical, I just think it's a bit scary (and perhaps a slippery slope) to let bureaucrats decide how we parent, or worse, what we all "ought to know".
That works for you, but what about the parent that does not think their child needs to learn to read, write or do basic math? Then what?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:22 PM
 
2,839 posts, read 9,968,858 times
Reputation: 2944
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
That works for you, but what about the parent that does not think their child needs to learn to read, write or do basic math? Then what?
How many of these parents do you truly think they are? People don't make the decision to homeschool because they feel their kid is better off not knowing how to read. Anyone who keeps their child out of school because they are too lazy to send them (and not because they intend to homeschool) is obviously negligent, and needs to be dealt with as a negligent parent, not as a homeschooling parent.

If you don't want every parent to be "tested" for competency before having children, then it's absurd to say that all homeschooling parents should be "tested." What is the criteria for the testing? Grammar skills? Really?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:26 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,387 posts, read 6,614,929 times
Reputation: 3362
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanandpumpkin View Post
The way that standardized testing is set up is that 49% of students score above "average," 49% score below "average," and 1% scores average. Fully half of children score below average on standardized assessments.

The problems with putting standards in place for homeschooled children are that a) they are faulty, b) there is no guarantee that kids who are "failing" in homeschooling will do any better in a school setting, and c) if fully half of schooled kids are scoring below "average" on standardized tests, then what on earth is the point?

There are also so many variables: My 8 year old can tell you anything you want to know about medieval times and castles. He does not know much about space. If the public schooled children learned about space last year, they would undoubtedly know more about it than my son, and would test much higher in that subject. Does that mean that his home edcuation program is failing?

What about special needs children? Even with special help, they may never score in the top 3/4 of their class. Does that mean that they should be forced to remain in school, simply because their abilities are not going to allow them to "ace" the test?

With so many young people coming out of the public school system unable to spell, read instructions, and count back change, why on earth are you worried about homeschooled children?
Exactly!

We do the state req's, but we custom tailor our plans around HER interests. Which have been Pre-Vet for the past 6 yrs, so we are going with that. So that means, we are heavy on science and math, and a bit of psych/sociology, with a good smattering of Latin; and lean on history and English.

So while she probably wouldn't score as high on some subjects; she would excel in others, off their grading charts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:27 PM
 
60 posts, read 132,797 times
Reputation: 46
Thank you all for so many responses! I would like to make a suggestion to the many people who claimed parents should not teach unless "qualified" or "experts". (I do not mean to use the quotations sarcastically.) I will use science, for example. Neither my husband nor I took a single science class past the tenth grade. And if we're being honest, we don't remember any of it before then, either! So, what makes us think we are qualified to teach science? Well, we have a library card, a natural enthusiasm for learning, and more personal stake in our children's growth than anyone else. So, if my son asks me about the planets, which I know nothing about, I can just as soon take him to the library and check out some books, reading them with him and in doing so, learning with him; I can take him to the planetarium, camp outside with him and watch the stars, read biographies of Galileo, ask the astronomy professor at the local college to teach him a few lessons, do an art project of the solar system with him...it goes on. Maybe I am not a foremost expert, but I know I inspire my kids quite a bit, I know my enthusiasm for the things they learn is both encouraging and contagious, I know I would do anything I thought was best for them, and I know they are not only learning the material, but learning how to teach themselves. Am I the best mom on Earth? A far cry! But I think just being their mom puts me miles ahead of what any teacher could do for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:37 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,387 posts, read 6,614,929 times
Reputation: 3362
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
What standardized test, exactly, are you talking about? I'm not talking about a child having to perform "above average". I'm talking about a child showing they have competency in a subject on a pass/fail basis. I'm talking about a final exam, or say, a final project even.
Hun, the "end of the year" standard testing the public schools have, only check the pass/fail of the class, and the school overall. They don't reward individuals. Since the whole "NCLB", school's get more money for mediocrity, instead of excellent schools.


Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
The point in putting standards in to place is to ensure the child is LEARNING. You may be a great homeschooler, that doesn't mean there is another child sitting there who cannot read or write. Midevil castles and space are not the type of things that would be tested in an 8 year old. Can he perform the basic math required of an 8 year old? Can he spell basic words and does he know his alphabet? Basics.
Apparently there is a precedent set where HS children do better, than the majority of PS children. Just ask Harvard, they prefer HS students.

Not to mention some of us want more for our children than the basics, we want them to excel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
Special needs children held to the same set of standards they would be held to in public school to graduate and move forward.
Not all states, most states I know of, have a different set of standards for special needs students.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
The topic is homeschooled children, which is why I am discussing homeschooling. My concern? Why should homeschooled children not have to meet the same educational requirements as a public school child to receive a diploma? I don't know where you live, but 99% of HS graduates in my area are not coming out of school unable to spell and count back change.
Every state has a set of standards for ALL children to pass (PS and HS), that is already in place. We have to follow a certain set of req's yearly, but the content is up to us. We don't have to test at the end of the year, but we do anyway, just for our own gauge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
So my question would be: why would you be against basic assessments of student and teacher on a yearly basis?

Again - I'm not against homeschooling in any way, shape, or form.
I am against the government interfering in even more things than they do already, and in fact they should butt out of over half of the things they are involved in already!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,238 posts, read 8,771,854 times
Reputation: 2645
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooches9 View Post
Thank you all for so many responses! I would like to make a suggestion to the many people who claimed parents should not teach unless "qualified" or "experts". (I do not mean to use the quotations sarcastically.) I will use science, for example. Neither my husband nor I took a single science class past the tenth grade. And if we're being honest, we don't remember any of it before then, either! So, what makes us think we are qualified to teach science? Well, we have a library card, a natural enthusiasm for learning, and more personal stake in our children's growth than anyone else. So, if my son asks me about the planets, which I know nothing about, I can just as soon take him to the library and check out some books, reading them with him and in doing so, learning with him; I can take him to the planetarium, camp outside with him and watch the stars, read biographies of Galileo, ask the astronomy professor at the local college to teach him a few lessons, do an art project of the solar system with him...it goes on. Maybe I am not a foremost expert, but I know I inspire my kids quite a bit, I know my enthusiasm for the things they learn is both encouraging and contagious, I know I would do anything I thought was best for them, and I know they are not only learning the material, but learning how to teach themselves. Am I the best mom on Earth? A far cry! But I think just being their mom puts me miles ahead of what any teacher could do for them.
What happens when your kid can't solve a geometry or trig problem? My teachers could walk me through how exactly to figure it out. Then I would continue on with the dozens more math problems I had to solve that day. In school, I could go from from one expert to the next for 7 hours a day every day. No need to go to a library, or wait while my mom researches it.

Do you know how to do trigonometry?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:44 PM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,326,146 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooches9 View Post
But I think just being their mom puts me miles ahead of what any teacher could do for them.
On behalf of your child's potential teachers, please, do them all a favor and home school your child!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2009, 04:46 PM
 
60 posts, read 132,797 times
Reputation: 46
I do. My husband and I are both learned in math up to third year Calculus--not really sure why this is important, though. And when my kids can't solve a problem? Instead of giving them the answers, I teach them where to find the solution. Maybe I do not have expertise in everything my children will learn (but I reiterate, teachers study education, not the subjects they teach) but I would rather my children be industrious and have problem solving and critical thinking skills than to be accustomed to having the answers fed to them by an expert. As for the future, if our kids are ever pursuing a math, language, etc. subject beyond my husband and my experience, we hire a tutor or enroll them in a part time class. Advice for other homeschoolers, local professors LOVE to work with homeschool students, and often apprentice our kids for free!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top