Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
To all those opposed to guns, and all for abolishing our 2nd amendment rights, I have a few questions:
- Do you honestly think it's a good idea for citizens not to be allowed the right to bear arms?
- Do you think that criminals who have no regard for the law to begin with are going to follow any gun restriction law?
- Don't you think that once criminals are the only people with guns that the rest of society aren't sitting ducks for home invasion, robbery and a number of other crimes by gunpoint, because the criminal will know you have absolutely no way to defend yourself?
- Do you honestly think that if guns had been outlawed that incidents like Columbine would have never happened, that they wouldn't have gone to a black market arms dealer to carry out their horrifying act?
I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people, but I think extreme gun control policies would do much more harm than good. I personally think one should have the right to bear arms for protection of one's self and one's family. Your thoughts?
Many are for limits on the type weapons, not banning gun ownership all together.
Unfortunately, all battles on the topic these days are all or nothing, thanks to the NRA, and it taking the all side. I don't think every home needs a laupa or a m110.
I enjoy target shooting, but dont think everyone needs to be armed all the time. There are too many irresponsible people out there.
I dont think the forefathers dreamed of the class & scope of weapons that we have today. If they had known, who knows how it would have been written.
To all those opposed to guns, and all for abolishing our 2nd amendment rights, I have a few questions:
Once again, I'm not opposed to guns or abolishing our 2nd amendment (I can however argue to you how an activist court extended the 2nd amendment to individuals in 2008 for the first time in US history if you want to hear it (before you go off on me, I thought it was a good ruling)), but I'll answer your questions anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan
- Do you honestly think it's a good idea for citizens not to be allowed the right to bear arms?
I think it's fine in a country like England.
I do agree, however, that in the US we should be afforded the right to own arms for basic protection of life - basic being key. There's no necessity for, say, fully automatic rifles or small nuclear devices. I don't think the 2nd amendment should be, or can be, interpreted to protect some fundamental right to own highly destructive arms never even envisioned by people in the 1780's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan
- Do you think that criminals who have no regard for the law to begin with are going to follow any gun restriction law?
By definition, "criminals who have no regard for the law" would not follow gun laws. Frame your questions better please (and with less bias).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan
- Don't you think that once criminals are the only people with guns that the rest of society aren't sitting ducks for home invasion, robbery and a number of other crimes by gunpoint, because the criminal will know you have absolutely no way to defend yourself?
To a point, yes. But I've never met anyone who actually wants to take away all of societies guns (and I'm a gay activist, left-wing liberal who associates mostly with other very left-wing liberals).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan
- Do you honestly think that if guns had been outlawed that incidents like Columbine would have never happened, that they wouldn't have gone to a black market arms dealer to carry out their horrifying act?
Yes, if they'd been outlawed since the founding of the US incidents like Columbine never would have happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan
I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people, but I think extreme gun control policies would do much more harm than good. I personally think one should have the right to bear arms for protection of one's self and one's family. Your thoughts?
What do you consider "extreme gun control policies"? I'm curious where our common ground lies.
The thing I have an issue with are the 30+ round clips. There was a mall shooting in Omaha where a kid had an SKS with a few 30 round clips, it was pretty bad.
Many are for limits on the type weapons, not banning gun ownership all together.
Unfortunately, all battles on the topic these days are all or nothing, thanks to the NRA, and it taking the all side. I don't think every home needs a laupa or a m110.
Many more realize laws and restrictions lead to further laws and restrictions and have had enough.
If not for the NRA, individual gun ownership would be a faint memory.
As for your over the top comment...
Where does the NRA advocate every home having a weapon?
Your post was "The 2nd amendment should only apply to the arms available as of 1791.", which lead me to believe you were against the 2nd amendment applying to todays guns. I also said "apparently" against, because that's what I gathered from it. If I'm mistaken, my apologies.
Yeah, I was being a little overly-dramatic (this forum brings that out in me - there's usually not much real back-and-forth here). I don't think the 2nd amendment should or does apply to lot of today's arms. I don't think I should have the right to possess a ground-to-air missile. I don't think I should have the right to possess a gun that, when I squeeze the triger, fires out 15 rounds per second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan
I agree to a point. I think there should be limits, but the same limits everywhere. I see no reason for anyone to have fully automatic assault rifles, or armor piercing rounds. But as per your example, if said New Yorker is in danger, fires his one shot against some thug who has a 15 round clip and misses, he's more than likely dead.
You gotta draw the line somewhere. At some point the honest man is at a disadvantage - that just comes with being a good, moral person. I don't buy into what I call the "arms-race argument".
What utter BS
What is a COP KILLER bullet ? No standard PD vest will stop a Long Gun round. Oh by the way any edged wepon or arrow can cut a vest with ease.
Machine Gun, your joking, US citizens have been banned from owning them from the 1920s.
Or do you mean look alikes. Get your lies straight
I always thought that part of the 2nd was to keep the people armed enough to protect themselves from tyranny.
"...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)
"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" (George Washington)
"The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police and military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military. The hired servants of our rulers. Only the government - and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." (Edward Abbey, "The Right to Arms," Abbey's Road [New York, 1979])
No, a vest will not stop a large caliber rifle round but it will stop most handgun rounds which are what most criminals use.
A cop killer bullet is one that has been coated with a layer of teflon and it will penetrate a vest even if fired from a small caliber weapon.
If it's BS, tell that to one of the last felons I arrested who served time for, among other things, possession of armor piercing ammunition. He was carrying a concealed .38 special loaded with cop killers. Thankfully I was able to take him down and disarm him before he had a chance to use it. I was wearing my vest but it wouldn't have helped.
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 07-01-2009 at 07:02 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
