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Old 07-08-2009, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,813,019 times
Reputation: 12341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Obama has set two criteria for health care reform: it must make health care affordable and it must cover everyone. But he doesn't define "affordable" and, to my knowledge, no one else has, either...
It only needs to be understood. Current system is simply a profit-making business for the middle men. The actual service providers don't get 100% of the money you spend. Instead a lot of it is pocketed the those middle men, who, BTW, will find any reason to drop you if you end up being an expensive customer or not extend you the benefits if you've pre-existing conditions for any reason.

Why should anyone be up for paying anybody but the actual service providers? By cutting down on the middle men, health care costs can be brought down. You still pay, but less than what you (or your employer) does to the insurance companies. Health care costs (especially medicare) can also be brought down by ensuring fewer people end up in more serious condition (that can often mean emergency room visits) and get regular health checkup. I also see a reformed health care system as being the first step towards helping the medicare system which needs a way to drive down costs for the future.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:20 PM
 
817 posts, read 853,119 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
It only needs to be understood. Current system is simply a profit-making business for the middle men. The actual service providers don't get 100% of the money you spend. Instead a lot of it is pocketed the those middle men, who, BTW, will find any reason to drop you if you end up being an expensive customer or not extend you the benefits if you've pre-existing conditions for any reason.

Why should anyone be up for paying anybody but the actual service providers? By cutting down on the middle men, health care costs can be brought down. You still pay, but less than what you (or your employer) does to the insurance companies. Health care costs (especially medicare) can also be brought down by ensuring fewer people end up in more serious condition (that can often mean emergency room visits) and get regular health checkup. I also see a reformed health care system as being the first step towards helping the medicare system which needs a way to drive down costs for the future.
So what happens if the govt. decides to reduce how much doctors receive for services performed, like they do with medicare and doctors start to refuse to accept medicare patients like they do right now. If the money isn't there fewer people will become doctors.
So what happens when this is happening on a more nationwide level?
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,813,019 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedman View Post
So what happens if the govt. decides to reduce how much doctors receive for services performed, like they do with medicare and doctors start to refuse to accept medicare patients like they do right now. If the money isn't there fewer people will become doctors.
So what happens when this is happening on a more nationwide level?
And you probably also think that insurance companies don't care about profits, will never decide to cut down services and costs to increase their profits. A little over two centuries ago, y'all would have made East India Company and like, very proud. They too believed people didn't need government and it should really be corporations running the country and the fate of its people.

But, allow me to ask something: why would eliminating profits to the middle men lead to worse payment to doctors?
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:37 PM
 
351 posts, read 375,887 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedman View Post
So what happens if the govt. decides to reduce how much doctors receive for services performed, like they do with medicare and doctors start to refuse to accept medicare patients like they do right now. If the money isn't there fewer people will become doctors.
So what happens when this is happening on a more nationwide level?
So what happens when the new system trains up more Doctors. So what happens when Doctors don't have the insurance company "monkey" on their backs and can actually treat patients how they want to and not how the insurance company tells them to. So what happens when our costs are reduced due to Govt. buying power. So what happens when America no longer has one of the most expensive and one of the worst medical systems in the world???????
Not bad by my reckoning, no matter how much it costs us.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:10 PM
 
817 posts, read 853,119 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
And you probably also think that insurance companies don't care about profits, will never decide to cut down services and costs to increase their profits. A little over two centuries ago, y'all would have made East India Company and like, very proud. They too believed people didn't need government and it should really be corporations running the country and the fate of its people.

But, allow me to ask something: why would eliminating profits to the middle men lead to worse payment to doctors?
The government would reap those benefits instead. I'm going to assume you're not foolish enough to think the government is going to let all the cash slip away. Come on now.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:12 PM
 
817 posts, read 853,119 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchcock View Post
So what happens when the new system trains up more Doctors. So what happens when Doctors don't have the insurance company "monkey" on their backs and can actually treat patients how they want to and not how the insurance company tells them to. So what happens when our costs are reduced due to Govt. buying power. So what happens when America no longer has one of the most expensive and one of the worst medical systems in the world???????
Not bad by my reckoning, no matter how much it costs us.
The government is the new 'monkey'.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,224 posts, read 5,010,868 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedman View Post
The government would reap those benefits instead. I'm going to assume you're not foolish enough to think the government is going to let all the cash slip away. Come on now.

Government is not interested in profits. Medicaid has a 5% overhead as opposed to private insurance. Why? Because they are not paying out ridiculous salaries to CEO's , Lobbyists and advertising.

they are NOT in int for money.. NO UHC in the world is making Profits nor cares to.

Just think 30% of 12,000 is $3600.. reducing the families bill to $8400.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:53 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,838,702 times
Reputation: 18304
To many now days its what someone else can pay for them.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:00 PM
 
817 posts, read 853,119 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Government is not interested in profits. Medicaid has a 5% overhead as opposed to private insurance. Why? Because they are not paying out ridiculous salaries to CEO's , Lobbyists and advertising.

they are NOT in int for money.. NO UHC in the world is making Profits nor cares to.

Just think 30% of 12,000 is $3600.. reducing the families bill to $8400.
The govt. doesn't call it profits. And they are always interested in money. What exactly is this 30% number or the 12,000 number?
It beats rationed healthcare.
We don't need a UHC. Why don't all the UHC supporters just get the govt to expand the same program they use for federal employees to whoever wants it and just not deny coverage to anyone? Then everyone is happy.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,729,686 times
Reputation: 35920
30% is the amout estimated to be spent on administration by insurance companies.

$12,000 is the amount the average family spends on insurance (or their employer spends it, or a combination thereof).

Actually, TM's math is a little off; if they reduced the admin costs to 5%, there would be a savings of 25%, or $3000 per year.

Regarding rationing, if you don't think your health care is being rationed now, go read your contract. Your insurance will only pay for certain procedures, etc, and if you are unfortunate enough to get sick, you'll find out very quickly just what they don't cover.
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